Wayne Chiang: Let The High Stakes Poker Live Stream Wars Begin!
Chasing Poker Greatness Podcast Episode 214
Wayne Chiang on social media:
Today’s guest on CPG is former co-owner of Live at the Bike, Wayne Chiang who’s dropping in to share some very exciting news:
Live at the Bike is BACK and better than ever!
So, without spoiling too much of the show, today you’re gonna learn why the poker world ought to be insanely excited about the new Live at the Bike ownership, how the OG live stream has evolved in the year 2022, and what Wayne believes will be future of Live at the Bike & the streaming space in general.
Also, if you wanna sneak peak of the brand spanking new State of the Art Live at the Bike setup and you’re on YouTube, be sure to stick around after today’s show so that you can watch Head CPG Private Coach Shu & I break down two pre-recorded hands played on the new Live at the Bike setup by today’s guest Wayne Chiang.
Now sit back, relax, and enjoy the show.
Click any of the icons below to find the CPG pod on the platform of your choice. Then sit back, relax, and enjoy my conversation with Wayne Chiang on the Chasing Poker Greatness Podcast.
If this is your first time on the Chasing Poker Greatness website, be sure to check out our groundbreaking poker courses to help sharpen your strategy and profitably implement solid, data-proven solutions to your game today:
Welcome welcome. Welcome my friend to another episode of the chasing poker greatness podcast. As always, this is your host, the founder of chasing poker greatness.com Coach Brad Wilson, and today’s guests on CPG is former co owner of live at the bike Wayne Chang, who’s dropping in to share some very exciting news live at the bike is back and better than ever. So without spoiling too much of the show. Today, you’re going to learn what a poker world ought to be insanely excited about the new live at the bike ownership, how the OG live stream has evolved in the year 2022. And what Wayne believes will be the future of live at the bike and the streaming space in general. Also, if you want a sneak peek of the brand spanking new state of the art live at the bike setup and you’re on YouTube. Be sure to stick around after today’s show so that you can watch head CPG private coach shoe and I break down to pre recorded hands played on the brand new live at the bike setup by today’s guest Wayne Chang. Now sit back, relax and enjoy the show. Wayne, welcome back to chasing poker greatness, sir. Hi, Ben.
Wayne Chiang: All right, Brad does the lot of work infinite work as you know
Brad Wilson: Infinite work. The word network never ends. You cut one head off and two heads spawn like the Hydra.
Wayne Chiang: It’s like 24 shots. David fury the executive producer is you know when Jack Bauer solves one problem, just two more. Let’s face
Brad Wilson: Luckily, luckily, we’re friends with the hydro at least I am you know I don’t mind navigating the work. I think if I didn’t have anything to do, I would probably just lose my mind.
Wayne Chiang: I think that at least for live with the bikes case. Over there. It’s been around for like 17 years. I was not even close there from startup and around six, seven years. The director Brian Arakaki shout to them was a trooper, you know, he’s been there for 10 years and executive producer, the former executive producer, Ellen Dillard, she’s, you know, hire one iron woman to do the slave and you know after my enrollments kohner For better or worse, I have an internet startup background, you know, I’m a big fan of watching, like white commentary, Gary Vee and stuff like that. So, you know, my contribution helps facilitate the sale.
Brad Wilson: Tell me about that the sale of live at the bike and actually just how it came about that you were the owner or the co owner of live at the bike in the first place.
Wayne Chiang: So a co owner, like like that Mike’s got a long, long history. I had of course heard about it before I was involved and because you know, people like you and I, we play online, have millions of hands. It doesn’t interest us because it’s like, you know, after you watch after you play, probably even 100,000 hands. You’re just the stuff just isn’t, you know, that interesting, but you know, there was Bart Hansen in there. TaqMan Evelyn, like Nicole Jergens. Like all these people, you know, lead up to the development of wire the bike to the point where, you know, Lyman poker, no good friend of ours in just the realist when it comes to the poker world. Anybody who’s interested in poker, just got to listen to poker, Sasha will just tell you the truth and not sugarcoat it. He became he was a co owner with Nicole Jergens, Brian Arakaki and Evelyn Dillard. And I was playing in lemons PLO game and this was bust this was like 10 years ago, a lot of family issues. You know, when you go bust, you got to blame yourself, like, first and foremost, unless you’re literally dealt, losing hand on stuff for 14 months, which also happened to me at a later time. Not when I’m going to so but I was a lot wiser want to happen. So I told a joke to Lyman. And he’s like telling the other one. And I told him that he’s like, telling them I don’t even remember the like nonstop jokes. It’s like, you know, it’s like, this is the fifth time you said last door but I swear, you know, stuff like that. Or one another ones like, you know, when somebody tells you a bad beat story. It’s annoying, right? Or it’s not annoying to me because I just say wow, that’s like, top five maybe top three worst beats of all time. Oh my God, that’s like top five maybe top three worst beats of all time. She’s I feel so bad for you. That’s like, top five maybe top three worst beats of all time. Just move on. You
Brad Wilson: Know? It sounds like you’ve got that pretty well rehearsed. Yeah, we
Wayne Chiang: Got you No I’m and I got a lot of a lot of toolkits for, you know, the the normal poker player and then so he’s like commentate with me. I’m like, he’s a paid. He’s like, Yes, I’m like farm Buster, I have many choices. I got on, you know, playing the shows, to showcase that I can play. So I’m qualified to commentate because like, wow, at least back in the day, there’s a lot of poker commentators were like, do you even play? Do you play poker? Brah. So yeah, that was like I played all the games. And because, you know, no limit Hold’em commentators are a dime a dozen. So I, you know, specifically set out to showcase that I play the other games to be qualified. And one of the big things of why not no limit Hold’em games have trouble with audiences. People don’t even know the hand rankings, like the audience is like, what’s the dude you know, what’s do seven? You know, what’s the nuts, and then you have to like, well, the way I do things which helped is translate everything into no limit Hold’em terms. As much as you can, obviously, the dry game is more difficult. But you know, something like, induced a seven, having a deuce is key, kind of like an ace. And then you want to have a deuce, and a seven, and a card in between three and five. That’s kind of like having ace king. It’s like, you know, I’m maidin. But you’re drawing two very strong hand. So just analogies like that.
Brad Wilson: Yeah, just anchoring, anchoring the education in something that the audience or the watcher the viewer already knows.
Wayne Chiang: And the audience is so nitpicky is like, Oh, what about this? What about the What about? See, it’s like, we’re doing what we can to like try to help the audience you know, bring it in. And poker, of course, is a marketing problem, because like, the pros just like have so much, so much bigger edge on the recreational players more so than a table game. So while pros are boasting how much better they are, it’s like you’re literally scaring away the fish. Because they’re gonna lose more than a poker game faster than if they play Baccarat. Especially Baccarat.
Brad Wilson: Yeah, so So you and Lyman, you all are joking around, you start commentating on Live at the bike, and then you’re busted. Right. So how does one itI live at the bike?
Wayne Chiang: I mean, this is like way wastepaper so I became a prop of the bike and just like, you know, just worked my way up, I was doing, you know, I had an entrepreneurship project too. And just, it’s rough. It’s, you know, like Steve Jobs finished, besides bad tasting medicine, and you just got to eat it, like, and, of course, there’s a period of bitching, but really, like attitude will hopefully persevere like good attitude, and not just like, taking the easy way out switch. Let’s, let’s be honest, poker, there’s a lot of upfront, seemingly easy way out, that just gets you into more trouble. So yeah, I was getting paid as a prop 40 AD and AS pretty. Like, you know, those gigs are super good, they barely exist anymore. It’s, um, it was like, $40 an hour, which I think 20 of it was tax free. And you get like, over time, and you know, play with your own money. So it just, it’s much more stable life and, you know, fully acknowledge, if you want to Maximian poker you play in your own, but it’s a lot harder life. And the older you get, you just don’t actually have energy, enough energy to keep it up. Right? So you know, that plus commentating a live of the bike. And just like, as everyone knows, the live of the bike games are better than the average ones, you see, unless you’re in a new flush environment, like Texas was like a year or two ago. And yeah, that’s how it you know, started and then. So I’m not like totally privy on, like the happenings but like, there’s a little light with a bike in the back end had a bunch of a bunch of situations where people all met while they grow the product and people said different visions. And you could say it’s sometimes a little bit people’s fault or nobody’s fault. But just like when, just like, you know, all companies, friends groups, you know, families, when they have differing views, you know, things are going to collide. So, you know, linemen and the other owners disagreed on what direction to take things and you know, live in solar shares. I was up for contention. It turned out like Dan Zack and digital Garza, you know, bought them and just, yeah, every passing day, like the company potentially wants to go in certain directions and Some people work in that direction or some people don’t. And
Brad Wilson: So basically that conflict and conflicting visions, some people just got out when their vision wasn’t wasn’t realized. And then other folks bought those shares up, and we’re pushing towards, you know, so
Wayne Chiang: That while Yeah, so as a third person’s point of view, just like somebody in the chat watching a poker stream, you don’t know what the hell’s going on. So like, I hear things, you know, I see things and like, of course, I’m not like, completely data list, but I do not know. Like, I’ve heard so many conflicting things. Not even, like not that conflicting, but just like, you know, different versions of stories that I’m just like, You know what, while I’m not a coder, I’m just like, not going to comment on that
Brad Wilson: Stuff. Yeah, there’s three versions, every story, right, like each person side and then the truth.
Wayne Chiang: So I’ll just go over the list of like CO owners, it was Evelyn Dillard, Brian Arakaki. Lyman Nicole Jergens, Ryan Feldman, Dan Zack and JJ la Garza. Those are the people who pre my time up until then, I was like a contractor and just the player on the show. And of course, I had, you know, high ties to the brand. But like, really, the back end stuff. I don’t know. Like, you know, share the people have comments, etc, etc. But really like, and then they came opportunity for me to have an I had an option to buy alignment shares, but the timing wasn’t good. So time after an option to buy shares, and I they were like, Okay, we need ABC XYZ, can you do this? And I’m like, yes. So I did it. And I had a bunch, like everybody, when they tack on a new project, you have all these ideas? Like, I’m going to do this. This is in the new year, you face reality, or like, oh, yeah, I can’t do that. I’m just going to make things happen that are plausible. So I did. When I came on board, the viewership grew. So what’s
Brad Wilson: The best idea that you had that was not plausible that best is
Wayne Chiang: Not plausible. This was to way too idealistic. And it’s not so much that it’s just it’s too ambitious, which is to grow poker beyond no limit Hold’em. I wanted to have high stakes for Mick’s game limit Hold’em seven card stud because as we know, in LA high stakes poker is distributed among these it’s not just know them home like you see on TV. In fact, Nolan, Hold’em was probably the least popular for a while. And the healthiest game was probably like limit Hold’em. And the seven card stud was just super consistent. And until, you know, that pool was no longer there. So
Brad Wilson: They aged out of this life.
Wayne Chiang: Yeah, they’re still playing now. I see them playing next games and hold them but like, you know, we know their heart isn’t seven card stud. But like one of the unrealistic things was I wanted to showcase high stakes poker in Los Angeles in its purest form, and potentially even ever evolving as the time progressed. And that just was not a reality. Yeah, revenue wise, because people just aren’t going to watch the other forms, like even limit Hold’em, which is in PLO, which is the same hand rankings. This is like, you know, there’s no personal tension. Like if you and I are in a hand and no limit, it’s like, this is what I describe as a PLO, if you’re in hand, I’m going to hand or in hand with each other. It’s like, Alright, you got to draw your top set, whatever, you know, we got to limit Hold’em it’s like you know, we’re seeing the river you know, you got some sick play off me but it’s like one extra bet. It’s like whatever. Nolan Hold’em device, stack you your stack me. And one of us that a minor misstep or somebody got cooler it or something. It just gets more personal. And that personal behavior comes out on camera, and you feel it. Because when you’re playing in real life, like you just have emotions that, you know, you potentially don’t have in the other games.
Brad Wilson: What about PLO? I mean, I see what you’re saying but PLO, it feels like you know, really high stakes PLO game could grab some viewers, right, lots of money on the table, in the same way that like, you know, folks watch poker tournaments, and there’s always a big flip for a million dollars, right? It’s not exactly high level strategy stuff. It’s like, Oh, somebody’s got the ace king. Somebody’s got the jacks. Let’s go for a million dollars.
Wayne Chiang: So the answer to this is in PLO, the audience isn’t as familiar. So with no limit Hold’em, it’s a great design because it’s easy for the viewer to figure out what to do with two cards. It’s right especially when you have options on move all in when you have four cards and only two in your hand, you must play tune your hand and three on the board. Even like a veteran like me, like when I’m watching EPL, I’m like, I’m not you know, I miss things. And just like that’s, that’s the problem. So it’s like, if I want to watch PLO then sure I want to watch like John Weissman or you know, Chris Wayne or Chris Brewer, like all these like superstars, you know, but has
Brad Wilson: Anyone tried high stakes? PLO live?
Wayne Chiang: Yeah, we. I mean, we ran a 2040 80 with the upswing guys. It’s just the ecosystems not sustainable plus, like more so than Hold’em you have highly competitive PLO and you have just like wild animal PLO. So really, the wild animal PLO is just like, hey, let’s have a party. I have a you know, double suited like six gapper. Let’s let’s go you know, when the end the hyper competitive, like, you know, like when do you when do you three bet the 8775 You know, against the hijack arrays like that’s, you know, and even talking about that is like the Eevee can be so slimy either way and have player history involved. So it’s tough because the no limit Hold’em communities like centralized and anchor, there’s a history. There’s Chris moneymaker and then the 2005 guys on TV, and then, you know, just branches off in so many different directions, but there’s something to anchor it where it’s like when you try to introduce something new. I mean, obviously, Joe and Graham one aka Chicago, Joey tried to evangelize PLO and has grown. But it’s just really hard for the average viewer to be like, Oh my God, you know, and just like, stay with it too. Whereas like, no limit Hold’em. The second I want to get serious one I have like, you know, chasing poker Enos podcast plus, like, you know, somebody training sites like Upswing one at once, raise your edge, check crush Live Poker, like all these different resources if I want to get better, and I have like, you know, streams, like live of the bike, you know, poker go, you know, like all these things to just watch. And, you know, learn whereas like I would say like limit Hold’em is even the second one where it branches off and there’s still a lot of material on it. But are people ever going to be inspired to be like, Yeah, I just want to get better limit Hold’em. You know, it’s like it’s a completely different.
Brad Wilson: Yeah, I would say that. Limit Hold’em is realized and maxed out its potential at this stage of the game.
Wayne Chian: Disagree, but at the same time, but the thing is, there’s no incentive to chase it. Like every game even no one would hold them. It’s just gone. So deep down the rabbit hole, like I was listening to Ben CV, talk about a hand an MTT hand where he’s like, Yeah, pocket fours are better than pocket fives and the circumstance because, you know, they have like, King five suited ace five suited, which would fold to a rip, you know, but you want to unblock the five and their hands with fours. I’m just like, oh my god, like the, you know, I have one of the best graphs on global poker. And I don’t even know that’s, I mean, you know, if you tell it to me, I’m like, Yeah, makes sense. But
Brad Wilson: Yeah, like effectively pocket fours is better than fives here because of, you know, fours doesn’t block on ones. Yeah. It again, it makes sense. It’s not something I’m quite unstudied at MTTs so not a thing that I’ve like really put a lot of energy into the tournament side of things, but going back them
Wayne Chiang: Yeah, we can talk about McG stuff later but yeah, going back to live of the bike when I came in, I have a lot of influence from like, you know, I commentary Gary Vee Dennis Fong who created cameras.com X fire wraps or playstyle TV now he’s working on a web three project like it just in JC receives the co founder of Tesla calm these are guys I grew up with and I’m not as a natural. I’m not as natural entrepreneur as they are, but look just observing them and just studying it’s like, you know, at some point, it’s my turn to bat and this was my turn. So I increase the viewership the peak concurrent on live of the bike I think was about 3000 I, during my run increased to like 8.8k be concurrent when COVID happens and the revenue was increased by about I don’t know I would say 35 to 40%. That being said, you know it’s hard it’s it’s a give or take, I was aiming and I’ve you know, produced the most high stakes poker episodes on stream. That being said, like I don’t have the most sexy ones. And mine is more about consistency and efficiency. And when you know a company like valleys sees that kind of consistency launch a lot Just having a plus increase revenue, then it’s open for purchase. Whereas if a company is like losing money, you know, it may not be such a good purchase.
Brad Wilson: Right, right. And so you bought live at the bike, you built it up to, like,
Wayne Chiang: I was one of the, like many what
Brad Wilson: Yeah, there was many owners, but you bought in in the ownership group. It built up, it was my
Wayne Chiang: Influence. This was heading in that kind of direction. And, you know, again, like, it’s like, not like everybody’s got different views. We all mean, well, like everyone wants the product to do well, of
Wayne Chiang: Yeah, so at least when I was involved, we were relatively in the same direction. And of course, all of us wanted different things. But that takes time, energy and resources. And we have to pick our battles. So when people look on the outside, they’re like, Oh, why don’t you just want to do that? Like one of the most common ones, like I get the end? I’m just like, hey, you should do a 24 hour stream? I’m like, Yeah, that’s great. Who’s gonna run it? Who’s gonna pay for it?
Brad Wilson: Right, right. So on the production side and the sales side, so eventually, you sell your shares? Or does the whole ownership group sell to Bally’s? Is that what happened? In what year? Did that happen?
Wayne Chiang: That happened approximately March or April 2021. So that’s where to go? Yeah, like the talks started. And basically, it was like, Yeah, cuz like, at least for my contribution, one, I’m just one person and I have a finite amount of energy and ability to contribute and what they were talking about, which, you know, you’re gonna hear on cardplayer, in podcast, the calm, they had their vision of a show, and just to continually build on this product. So, you know, as a small team, we could continue to run that product, but it has its limitations. And, you know, we got to the point where it’s like, we liked what we were hearing. And it was just time
Brad Wilson: You mentioned that Feldman was part of the ownership group, right, who spun off and now this is running the hustler hustler stream. So I imagine that like, differences in ideologies or how things go, I guess this is another component of it, right? They get to go off and he’s, you know, doing his own thing and trying to realize his vision for what a poker livestream ought
Wayne Chiang: To be. So I was Yeah, I mean, I’ve worked with Brian quite a bit like, you know, in hustlers like some people hustler have issues with the people I work with, and vice versa, and like, I’m kind of stuck in the middle and it just kind of like, you know, they make an effort to mention this beef is there’s no beef with me. And I don’t The thing is, I was not co owners, I was not actually there when the stuff with Brian and the other co owners when it when it went down. So like I hear things, but at the same time, you know, at the end, and Ryan, I have talked about this because like I had heard stuff and he’s like, that wasn’t true. And you know, other people said things he said thing and then just like there’s, you know, the other corners like that’s not true. So it’s
Brad Wilson: Like Right, right, you know what, there’s one side of the story the other side of the story, and then the truth is in the middle, right? And it’s hard to gauge and honestly it probably just doesn’t really matter so much you know what’s, what’s done is done and what they’re doing is great and from what I’ve seen from what you’re doing, it appears to be great as well which is heading into you know, the Bally’s by and then the relaunch of live at the bar
Wayne Chiang: Just totally different directions. It’s the thing is there’s different shows, it’s like even the World Series that there’ll be PT or two different show. Sure. Yeah, I mean, they’re so and just like and there’s room for both right like there’s room for both. It’s we’re lucky that there’s demand for all this stuff, like you know, this, you know, definitely some like you know, comparisons but the same time. It’s like when a shoe brand comes Is that like, you know, the Jordans come out, or the Reebok pumps come out, like every product is going to have their product that brings something to the table. And in the end, you know, I hate to be so cold about it, but the industry wins. And that’s a poker players, we have to be kind of cold about these situations. And you know, like I said, lighted bikes been around for 17 years and gone through, like so many different people that each thrown their pebble to the glass of water half empty, or half full, and just piles on and nobody knows what’s gonna happen. But you know, our relaunch is April 30, and knee and the older stuff was working with and the newer staff were just like, Wow, we had no idea this was coming, like, this is just insane. And there’s some more things to come.
Brad Wilson: What is insane about the relaunch
Wayne Chiang: The room guy completely renovated, you know, tape, new table software, there’s like some software that we have, and now in development that is not going to be new to the tech industry, but at least for the poker industry is just doesn’t exist. The back of the room, which, you know, you see, we’ll see what the videos is, there are monitors, and you could do a lot of cool things with those monitors. Like, if you and I are in the hand. It’ll have and we’ve had, you know, hands together for five years, it’s like ambient gear, for example, because they probably have the most hands on by with, like, against each other, like, you know, if the cameras on Garrett, then this show that, you know, he’s been on survivor and he had battled, like, even long before live in the bike and cameras on Andy and, you know, vice versa is like, you know, all the stuff that he’s working on is sponsored by GG poker now and just the growth of have those two players over the almost two decades.
Brad Wilson: Yeah, so you can put like clips of that in the background, or profiles or stats, or just any kind of graphic that you’d like.
Wayne Chiang: There’s like the teams already shut out a ton of ideas, and just the new executive producers and valleys when they hear all these ideas are like, wow, that’s, that’s amazing. They just, they’re so open minded. And it’s like, you know, it’s, it’s a bit it’s a really big change. Because even when I was involved, and I’ve definitely heard stories before, like people were, were debating over what direction what vision take it and these new executive producers, like, we want it all, like we want, like, when when are you, you, you you, you know, that view this view? So it’s like, cool, because
Brad Wilson: Now they have the resources to invest into the product as well.
Wayne Chiang: Yeah. So you know, that’s in like, I’m constantly impressed by everybody in the team, like when they when they have the time and energy, and now resources to put their foot forward. It’s like, wow, it’s not just like, it’s just it’s a different. It’s a different feel. Because we can now step by step, do a lot of things that all of us wanted to do rather than pick and choose. And just like, settle on something.
Brad Wilson: So when live at the bike relaunches in the very very near future, my plan is to get this out before the 30th What can the listener slash viewer of chasing poker greatness expect? Why should they tune in to this new iteration of live at the bike?
Wayne Chiang: Well, we’ve already recorded five shows, I think today’s the sixth show a lot more. But on the 30th we potentially will have $4.5 million on the table and I’m pretty sure that’s beat every United States record and might even be higher than trying I don’t know. So, you know, I don’t want to be quoted on that. But we’re going big. And
Brad Wilson: 4.5 million your nine handed right?
Wayne Chiang: No, not even I think it’s seven seven might be on handed but
Brad Wilson: Yeah, person 400,000 A person
Wayne Chiang: No a couple of fewer buying the mill
Brad Wilson: Yes. So we could potentially have some some million dollar pots.
Wayne Chiang: We can potentially have some $2 million pots with all their money to like you know, I don’t want to throw particular people under the bus but when you’re like a lot of people playing the super high roller rolls or you know high stakes cash they’re not playing with their own all their own money.
Brad Wilson: Yeah, well, these guys are Yeah, it doesn’t really matter to me so much whether or not folks are playing with all of their own money. It’s somebody’s money so somebody’s upset one way or the other and somebody’s happy one way or the other. But yeah, those are some some giant steaks. Can you speak to the players that will be competing for all this money in?
Wayne Chiang: And yeah, we’ve definitely reached out a lot of people and the people are showing up our, you know, among our first draft picks, so to say so, you know that that’s exciting. There’s obviously some people we want again, we’ll get in the future, but they’re just not available. But um, yeah, I don’t, I don’t know what to say and each show.
Brad Wilson: Who are the characters who are the characters are you at liberty to say like, who’s playing in these? You know, this game with 4.5 million on the table?
Wayne Chiang: I can say there’s half classic people and half people. There’s definitely two people that haven’t been on before. Online of the bite and half classic. And of course, some big names that have been there is very
Brad Wilson: Vague lane. It’s very vague, I guess you’ll have to tune in to live at the bike. I just I can’t eat it. Folks are battling
Wayne Chiang: Their social media pushes and as as of the meeting on April 26. Like we are still discussing what to do and I’m not you know, I’m one of the liaisons didn’t live in the bike. I’m not in control of the media and there’s an intro shot with their kicks Chris Ewing, Kitty, Lynn. Matt Berkey. It is just like it’s film by Matthew soft check who’s a very good friend of mine. He’s the bookworm. He’s more affectionately known as wheeze, my co commentator, but um, he’s an award winning commercial short film and music video director and he just really came with it with this. And there’s just more to come.
Brad Wilson: Yeah, for for watching it right. Like, where still YouTube streaming. where to where to go.
Wayne Chiang: YouTube, the same YouTube channel as it’s always been on and there will be more coming. It’s it’ll be so vague, but it’s when
Brad Wilson: There’s really this mysterious relaunch of live at the bike that that will go live. So this
Wayne Chiang: This is the god honest truth of what happened, like two Fridays ago. Um, one of the games was filmed like that. The big names were Maria. Whoa. I think Matt Berkey was in there. I’m not. Not totally sure. But yeah, Maverick he was in there. So after Valley saw this, we were gonna just, you know, launch last week after Bali saw this. And it’s still rough. It’s just but as a first draft for what’s to come, they’re like, we’re gonna do more. This is not this is the beginning. Not even close, then. So that’s why it’s difficult for me to talk about things because there’s so much stuff in the air. And I’m hearing like good news, like every day. So you know, it was it’s different when you’re a co owner. Which just like in especially in the Internet startup world, you hear about this, it’s like, sometimes it’s time to let go and let somebody else you know, take the reins that has more resources. I’m just gonna like, I’ll be on modest or I will be modest and say a better vision. Because, um, when I joined live of the bike I played, I rigged the high stakes games. And like, every game, like we were probably at some crossover like DJ F. remembers him and I playing heads up SIM card slot. I remember playing Nolan Hold’em with them. I don’t remember this. But just like
Brad Wilson: I was, heads up, yeah, seven cards that you wish.
Wayne Chiang: We, I mean, just, you notice, like when you’re in that era, you know, everybody’s around, you know, people like you know, come and go or come back or like change directions and lives in their life. And at that time, I was like, Well, I play everything. I’ve read the high stakes games, so I shouldn’t be okay to like be involved here. And at this point, Bally’s wants to take over the bike and the concept of the show, just bigger than ever. And that’s something because like I spend most of my time on the West Coast like Vegas, San Diego Bay Area and LA. So I’ve never set foot in Regatta, Macau, Europe, you know. So they have plans after they mature what goes on here.
Brad Wilson: I see. So spin offs live at, you know, cite the berkata or x x, y or z as a placeholder example. Basically, this is like a it’s effectively for Bally’s. Not going to call it like a pilot project but kind of that they can then duplicate if they so chose
Wayne Chiang: or more to showcase like what is special about a certain area because you know like I said I don’t think anyone’s debate like I’m a hub for LA poker, like I played everything and play at the highest stakes. And you know, I’m more focused on building products. Now I do dabble in playing here and there. But really like, when it’s time to do work, I get up maybe not even waiting for the blind, which as you know, as a professional poker just kills you inside and not.
Brad Wilson: I’m so trained to wait for the blind. I was preparing for a live stream that I do once a month on poker coaching. And like making sure my tech was all set up and in stream labs and I bought in at like, five nl. And I’m like messing around a five and Elena. I’m like, okay, so I gotta wait to my big blind. I’m like, What are you doing? You idiot? No blinds, right? Like, yeah, it’s, I just can’t make myself like, it feels so bad. Just playing the blinds and then folding the button. Yeah. But yeah, so I caught myself just falling into that trap. Just naturally.
Wayne Chiang: So yeah, I know, some people on the East Coast, like, you know, friends and people I obviously know because they’re famous. So like friends, like, you know, Dan Zak, or like more, most of our who, you know, were the poor guy streets. And then you know, people I know, because they’re famous, like Sean D, you know, just like, What can if if something were to happen in Borgata after live, the bike showcases what it could do in LA. And there’s just so much like, it’s not blind to any of the former owners. What can be done with live of the bike? Because it’s in the heart of Los Angeles. It’s that time, money. You know, and energy like it’s just and now valleys in the new execs want to step in and just boom, you know, make it happen for LA and then potentially look at other places the showcase.
Brad Wilson: Yeah, that’d be that’d be awesome. I mean, as somebody that’s traveled around and played a lot of poker and a lot of different places, there is a different vibe, right? There’s different community, there’s different superstars, there’s different rags and different storylines, and it’s just a different feel, you know, like in Florida versus in LA, or I’m sure Texas appears to be quite different. I haven’t been there. Oh, absolutely.
Wayne Chiang: And that’s probably like, because the lodge, you know, obviously, Doug Polk and Brad Owen and Andrew nimi. They’re doing stuff there. So, you know, we’re all in the poker world excited to see what they come up with. But like when it comes to a cocoa duplication process like that, like the lodge, or even Texas courthouse, or, like, forgive me, like I, you know, I have so much on my mind, I don’t know what’s out there. But just like, you know, they’re not like a copy of, you know, live of the bike or whatever. They’re trying to create their own flavor because of where they’re at. And that’s like, the model. It’s not so much like a copy model. It’s like every city, let’s showcase what more data is, you know, or New York’s about or, you know, Macau is about, like, it’s not like, Oh, why would the bike copy find the next Garrett? And no, it’s like, you know,
Brad Wilson: Yeah, it is a decent model, right to try to duplicate but you’re not going to find Garrett and it’s not going to be the same atmosphere. So it’s more just, yeah, just the model of live at the bike and then trying to expand it elsewhere. Finding you know, you’re different, you’re different players, different storylines, all the things that make a show a show, which, in my mind, you know, pokers an amazing game. And that’s why I promoted and that’s why I’ve pretty much devoted my life to poker since I was 19 years old. And so it’s really great. Seeing these places featured in a way that maybe some of them just haven’t been yet.
Wayne Chiang: So one thing at least for a lot of the bikes case with the relaunch is there are people who have started, like, you know, 17 years ago like CD James, like, Harry like Josh Mattiello. Israeli Ryan, like they started this and watch this thing grow long before I was there. So one thing is, especially guys that are incredibly loyal to the show, like we want to showcase them first and foremost, and, you know, grow from there and be like, these are the guys that held on you know, that, that like started, stay true and held on and we need to honor them before moving on to whatever, you know, let’s make sure over the bike and La gets the first priority for the longest first and longest standing poker stream. And you know, make sure that is a world famous and world respected product before moving on to the next city, I guess.
Brad Wilson: What do you have to say to the folks who have tweeted recently, you know, live at the bike still exists live at the bike is still a thing.
Wayne Chiang: Oh, I mean, it’s just a joke. It’s funny, like, I don’t like this. The thing is like people always want to comment, like, the shade that’s thrown at, like,
Brad Wilson: Beyond the shade, where should they go to check out the relaunch? Oh,
Wayne Chiang: I mean, I like it’s human to ask whether it’s malicious or joking, like, oh will happen a lot is like, I saw some people like half year ago, say, Oh, I was bicycling out of business and we had already sold. So it just like it shows that people reading social media have no idea what’s going on, which is fine, because, you know, it doesn’t affect me slash live the bike either way, like we’re going to move forward or not, like if people are going to close shop, like, I’m working. Dave, you know, they’re just announced it I guess, you know, but yeah, it’s just, it’s just chatter. I don’t know, like, people are free to talk is no way Elon Musk, or, you know, by Twitter. Yeah, people,
Brad Wilson: People are free to talk, I would, I would say to them, you know, check out the relaunch and see what you’ve been up to, and all the work that, you know, you’ve put into developers improving the product, as well, as, you know, all that money that’s been funneled into it to upgrade production and all that, all that stuff. We
Wayne Chiang: Want to we want to hear all the good and the bad. And just like processes and see see what’s possible, because it’s like, you know, it’s not like a 24 hour stream has escaped us the concept, but like, from a practicality perspective. It’s like, you know, not gonna bring what the effort put out? Well, it’s not to recruit the effort put out. So
Brad Wilson: What about? Yeah, let’s, so we can, you know, we can wind down with this in your exceptionally biased opinion. How do you think the relaunch is going to compare to say, hustler livestream?
Wayne Chiang: So this is out of my hands, but like, the new execs, were, like, you know, baseball, Hustler, and, frankly, they’re like, they have, they feel like they have a better vision. And for the meantime, like we sold before hustler even launched like that. So the vision was set. valleys and the exec producers had a vision already before they even saw us or and then when they when they saw it, they were like, you know, this, they think their vision is better when it came to survival mode. And last eight months, shout out to the Iron Man Briner cocky and myself, like we were, I mean, for people to say like hustlers production is better. It’s like it better be better. Like the production we have like a four year old production, you know, you have all this brand new equipment, like Is this normal? It’s kind of like, you know, we have cool sneakers like four years ago, and they get worn down after four years, somebody buy this, you know, latest new kicks, of course, it’s gonna be better. And when people you know, when we’re down for like, a month and a half, or we haven’t upgraded because corporate slow. It’s like, of course, it’s what people are going to say I don’t it’s like, if you’re queens, and I have Jack’s and flops, nine high horse, you’re gonna beat me like, it’s one of the when we get to the MTT section of this, it’s kind of like entitlement, like when people are disappointed or boasting a tournament, like my, in the money’s like 28%, essentially my stats. So I still bus 72% of the time. So it’s like if I have ace, queen, you have ace, king, I’m expecting to win. No, like, I feel lucky to even cash,
Brad Wilson: Right? So effectively, it’s like if hustle had been around for four years, and then another stream pops up. And hustler hasn’t upgraded its production quality or value or vision in that time, it’s of course, most likely going to be worse than their new that pops up. Right.
Wayne Chiang: So from an outsider perspective, you know, obviously Hustler’s done a good job. And
Brad Wilson: They’ve done a great job. Like, it’s just very visually appealing. I think they’ve done an excellent job. And to be fair, like all of these things, you know, this is like the free market at work, right? There’s two streams, and you’re building off of each other, right? Like you’re figuring out, you know, what one is doing exceptionally well. And then you just progress. And that’s the nature of competition and progression. And it makes sense. All the
Wayne Chiang: Streams have different core strategies which have similar player crossover.
Brad Wilson: So except for stones, the stones stream, that a different model, they
Wayne Chiang: Are different models that a lot of us are against, but, but but more so than hustler. What I think is interesting is the seventh of the lodge in the stream coming there because Doug Polk has of obviously, Upswing engine anemia and Brian Owen has their vloggers their vlogger Audience So I feel like that’s a really interesting experiment to see how that goes because let’s be honest, like our equipment like the lightweight equipments gonna smash like everybody has that maybe pokergo. But even then, like, they’re different flavors. So, when it comes to a visual perspective, you’re saying hustlers like, good, like, what’s coming up is sorry, like, just being objective, like the bikes gonna be better.
Brad Wilson: And there’s that Lars that that opinion that I was looking for.
Wayne Chiang: Yeah, I mean, that’s like, the thing is, this is the podcast it’s presumably going to release before you know, the live of the bike relaunch plus, you could have me back at any time you know, it’s it’s so hype up what’s coming, but like, it was like, you know, the lodge is spent money upgrading their equipment. And, like, objectively, it’s just not gonna be as good as are the bike so
Brad Wilson: Yeah, as big as you know, Upswing poker is and as successful as you know, dog Brad and Andrew have been there, no Bally’s. Who is Valley’s right. There’s very few corporations like Bally’s.
Wayne Chiang: Yeah, and at the same time, there’s also very few people like Doug Polk, Anthony, me and Brian don’t want so you know, we have different flavors for different streams. And it kind of, you know, just goes from there. And Cool, man, it’s there. Like, like I said, to see once more strategies, yeah, yeah, or different strategy and strengths. So we’re just gonna, you know, play towards our strength, and none of us are perfect. None of us can do everything. Like, when when people are saying, Oh, this is better than that. It’s like, for now, right? Like, you know, like, when 3d or VR, poker streaming comes out, like whatever the hell live of the bike is now it’s probably just out, you know, archaic, I don’t know. But you know, what we have, like, literally everybody on the team that bike Bally’s. Exactly, just like, Yeah, this is 2022. This is what’s up.
Brad Wilson: And I hope that VR streaming doesn’t happen in the near future, because I get wildly sick, my experience will be quite worse than the average watcher, because of my insane motion sickness, when I put those goggles on.
Wayne Chiang: We are all going to be working hard. But this is like a good opportunity for especially Brian Arakaki and myself to take a step back, because at least in the last few years, of Brian even longer than me, but in the last few years, when I was a co owner, I was like, spearheading my strengths, which you know, are, you know, I’m not perfect, and I don’t see everything. But just like poker, you’re gonna play towards your strengths. And we’re all aware that we’re weak in something, or at least people who aren’t suffering from Dunning Kruger aware that we’re all weak in certain areas, and you just try to mitigate that kind of, you know, weakness, and potentially turn into a strong area, but really, like your natural strengths are always going to your natural strengths. So that’s what Brian and I were pushing, you know, when the equipment hadn’t been upgraded, and we, you know, kept it alive, like when Bally’s checked our analytics, it wasn’t that far behind hustler. So, you know, it’s with what we had we did what we could.
Brad Wilson: Well, with that said, as we’re wrapping up here, the CPG, fewer listener, where can they go to check out the stream? What time it what’s the schedule, like? All the all the details.
Wayne Chiang: So we’re intending for Wednesday, Thursday, Friday, and minimum, this debut is April 30. It’s gonna be a Saturday. And, again, I wish I could give you more definitive answers, but literally, the answers are changing. And all in a good direction. And we’ll check
Brad Wilson: Out the live at the bike stream and you’ll get answers there. I’m sure they’ll want you to know when the next episode is going to launch but 4 million on the table 30 If I would probably check that out. If I were interested in watching high stakes poker,
Wayne Chiang: Should be over 4 million should be over 4.5. But again, like people in industry know I’m not a big talker, even though if I even though I know certain things might happen because it’s like, you know, what if what if it doesn’t then, you know, like, no one’s gonna rip on me but it kind of is a notch cancer credibility. But yeah, we aim to have over 4.5 million on the table. And again, cryptic but some exciting people, past present, and hopefully future.
Brad Wilson: All right, man. It’s been great having you on great to hear about the the relaunch of live at the bike excited to see what develops down the road. And, you know, with that said, if anybody in the CPG audience wants to connect with you, where can they go?
Wayne Chiang: Email Wayne live at the bike.com just if you want to play in the show, and we are going to play basically high stakes only, and we want to try to get as many people in. But here’s, here’s the other thing too. Like, you know, several people publicly and privately have thrown shade at the company, and myself. And it’s like, while I don’t really care either way, I’m just like, not going to put you at the top of the list when you do things like that. And it’s not even about poker, like, people throw shade about my poker skill. And it’s like, I’ve sent you my full photograph. It’s like, okay, that’s just my online forget, like live. Yeah, maybe I’m losing everything life or whatever, I don’t care. But just like, when you have that attitude, it’s not even just towards me, it’s like, how are you going to treat other people on the show? How are you gonna treat the audience you’re just straight up have like, a negative or entitled attitude, when like, especially when it’s a poker pro, like, like, you’re here to fleece, the Rex, like, sorry, wait in line, like, you know, if you’re not bringing anything to the table, and even the TV players that you know, bring something and table on all these shows, all these poker shows, it’s like, presumably, you’re going to sell these racks for like quite a bit. Like, you know, give them an experience. Give him a story, have a video. If you can’t even do that, then it’s like, no, you’re placed in the poker world, so to say,
Brad Wilson: Well, Wayne, you can put me at the top of the list. I’ve never talked trash about life at the bottom. Where are you? In any public or private forum? And I can’t prove the private one. But it’s true, nonetheless.
Wayne Chiang: Oh, no. I we already know, like external personalities. And of course, there’s like fun trash talkers. That’s totally fine. Like, you know, but like the ones that are just straight up, like malicious, like self centered, just like what are you doing, man? Like, again, changing,
Brad Wilson: Right? Like the game is changing over time to where poker players and higher level poker players have become more public personas. And they either need to change their behaviors with the times or they don’t. And if they don’t, well, then you cause yourself opportunities. Right. And that’s just the nature of the real world. So cool, man. Yeah, again, it’s great having you on really enjoyed it, and we’ll catch up in the near future. Congrats on the relaunch. All right, thank you.
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