Shaundle Pruitt: Crushing MTT's, Twitch Streaming, and Pure Grit

Brad: Welcome back, ladies and gentlemen to Chasing Poker Greatness, where we go deep inside some of the greatest minds in poker and share with you the story of their humble beginnings, how they got to the top and where they plan to go to next. You’ll gain insights into their thought processes and their methods for constantly improving their game on a daily basis, direct from them and in their own words. Today, you’re going to hear from Shaundle Pruitt. Shaundle’s an accomplished tournament player, streamer, and as you might not expect, real estate agent. He comes from a strong gamer background as a man who surprise, surprise, fell in love with strategy games at a young age. Infatuated by the added element of luck in poker, he found success at the micro stakes cash games online before turning his attention and energy to online tournaments. Shaundle had built up his bankroll to the point where he felt comfortable firing at $500 and $1,000 buy in tournaments, until a fateful day in mid-April 2011 changed everything. Shaundle had just been to tourney for 5k on his birthday, April 14, when all of a sudden, poof online poker disappeared overnight. I guess there’s a lot that can happen in life. But I’m going to go out on a limb and say that this has to rank way up there in the category of worst birthday memories of all time. After Black Friday, Shaundle couldn’t bring himself to continue playing the game that he had invested so much of his heart and soul into anymore, and quit playing cards for about four years before eventually returning to the felt. As is par for the course for poker players, the man has had some big ups and big downs over his career. But if there’s one adjective I would use to describe him, it would be this, gritty. He never stays down for long and continues to grow and improve his game on a daily basis. As we talk today, you’re going to hear what he considers his biggest success as well as his biggest failure. He’ll let us in on any regrets he may be harboring, and explain what has allowed him to thrive in online tournaments regardless of the year or the competition. He’s got some great words of advice about what you should and should not be thinking about if you want to make it in this great game. He’ll also let you in on some secrets for finding methods of study that will improve anyone and everyone’s game. Shaundle’s a shining example of what perseverance and hard work can get you if you’re willing to put in the time and energy to chase your poker dreams. And so, if you’re ready to do what it takes to be successful in your quest for poker greatness, Mr. Shaundle Pruitt has most definitely got some advice for you. Let’s get to it.

Brad: Shaundle, my man. How you doing this afternoon?

Shaundle: I’m good, buddy. How about yourself, man?

Brad: I’m doing pretty well. I’m pretty, pretty chill weather it’s getting cooler. Little cooler anyway. I’m looking forward to fall.

Shaundle: It’s beautiful here, man. I mean, I’m not looking forward to the fall as much I love this time of the year and get the kids out. I walk a lot. So, I enjoy this weather because when it gets cold out, I can’t walk you know here so

Brad: Yeah, you’re in Ohio. So, in Atlanta, it’s been 97 all week.

Shaundle: Oh my goodness.

Brad: Which has been absurdly hot like I, ready for pumpkin spice lattes at Starbucks and

Shaundle: Flannel season, right?

Brad: A cool breeze. Yeah. Let’s start this thing off by you telling the audience, how did you get into poker? I know that you’ve been playing poker a long time. How did it start?

Shaundle: For me it started in college. You know, I would think I was a senior in college starting my senior year, and had a lot of friends to kind of play little cash game home, games. And I would I just started playing like, there was a game every Tuesday night you went to my buddy’s basement, and it was like a $20 buy-in which is a lot of beer money. So, we’d play that every, it was intense. And guys would like lose their mind over bad beats and things like that. It was like very competitive and it was fun. A couple 100 bucks up top. So, I would play that and then I got into playing cash games all around campus. And then we started going to Detroit, because there was no casino in Ohio then, we would drive up to Detroit and play cash games up there. And then it just spiraled into playing online. And, you know, so yeah, it was just a lot of little games to start, little house games, things like that. And then, you know, to get to one line.

Brad: Did you have success in those games?

Shaundle: Yeah, I actually did, man. I think at first, nobody knows what the hell no, no. And, you know, it’s, but that’s the cool part. You know, I was, I’ve always been like, kind of a gamer, like, play the little chess growing up, all kinds of video game, strategy games. So, I’m always, I was very intrigued with poker. I’m, like, almost love at first sight. You know, I was like, oh, this is cool. I can make some money. And it’s a strategy game against people, you know? So yeah, I had a little success at first, especially in the little cash games, and did very well with those.

Brad: Well, how does it feel to you to see the strategic depth in something and then the challenge? Because that’s something that obviously appeals to me as well, knowing that, my thing is, like, when I first started playing cards, or poker, I remember thinking that like, there’s depth here that I don’t understand. I just see, I just see that it’s available. And that was a pool for me personally. Did the complexity, the potential complexity, did that appealed to you, too?

Shaundle: Yeah, it’s very appealing. It’s almost more so than chess, because you know, chess, although not solved, there’s guys that are just so good. And see the game so many levels ahead. But in poker, you know, the luck bearable. It’s kind of cool as well, you know, again, it’s, it gives, like new players and worst players an opportunity to win. But at the same time, strategically, you know, you can, not need as much luck when you learn, when you become more skilled. And luck becomes a smaller part of that. And I really liked that aspect of it, where there’s a luck element, but there’s a lot of skill in this beavery complex. And you know, the there’s just so much to learn with the game. It just never ends. I study all the time, and I’m always finding out new things. So, it’s always fresh and exciting in that way for me.

Brad: Yeah, I’m with you. Not a lot of high stakes chess games out there.

Shaundle: Yeah, exactly.

Brad: This, the luck element is 100% necessary. And it’s the secret ingredient for poker being so popular, I think.

Shaundle: Yeah.

Brad: Tell me. So, you go from, you know, going to Detroit, you’re playing in your home games, the tournaments, what stakes were you playing back in the day? Because I know you got into playing online poker fairly early. What did that look like?

Shaundle: Oh, well, for me, you know, when I was playing those little games, there was zero bankroll management. You know, I had 100 bucks in my pocket. As a college kid, you know, we were just spending the money and then oh, there’s a $20 tournament or there’s a 50 cent dollar cash game or something like that. And I just, you know, whatever money I had to go play and make a couple, make some money. It was cool, you know, and when I started playing online poker actually only had a $7. I got transferred $7 from a buddy. It was after college. I didn’t start playing online. So, Dan and I started out playing one set to Sandman. I grinded up a role from one set, two set. I would, I was very tired. I remember just having like, in my head, I’m going to play aids plus, like Ace jack suited plus and some garbage strategy and definitely super nitty, because people are just dumping and, you know, just, I played patiently for months, got it up to like 100 bucks, and I was pumped and then moved up to five cent, 10 cent, you know. Just a natural progression with the five cent, 10 cent, six max, to 620 by 10/25. And then from there, I had a few $1,000 and I started playing like $11 tournaments, like 2k or something like that. Started playing online tournaments. And that went really well to start. It was kind of the fool’s gold effect, you know, ran really hot early.

Brad: It’s easy.

Shaundle: It’s easy.

Brad: Win a tournament or two a day, no big deal.

Shaundle: I think I literally won like, I used to play some singles. But there was like an $11 tournament, which got me into turn it, got me into playing tournament. I started, I was a cash game player and won this $11 midnight tournament, two nights in a row. And then I was just oh, this is it. This is. I’m printing here you know, this is the printing

Brad: Soft. I got it.

Shaundle: Soft, yeah, this is easy money. No more cash game. So yeah, um, so from there, you know, I just kept playing a tournament and then I got super lucky once. I won a trip to the Aussie Millions kind of, as a fluke. I wouldn’t say a fluke, it was, I played a $20 satellite into a 320, which was a winner take all tournament to an Aussie Millions package and that went in that. They end up giving me the money which was just a sick bankroll boost at the time.

Brad: How much was it?

Shaundle: 18k. Its 18k package and I probably at the time literally had like a 3k roll or something stupid.

Brad: Yeah, you just six extra roll.

Shaundle: Yeah. Just six extra roll real quick, you know.

Brad: No big deal.

Shaundle: Yeah, but you know that was, that was fun and punted a lot back pretty quick plan way too high.

Brad: What do you what stakes? Did you play 1090?

Shaundle: I just went up and just instantly just thought I was a Boston started playing 30s and 109. You know that I was like, oh, I can play the one on it. This is nothing. I mean, I probably could, but I didn’t have the, I didn’t make the natural progression to the 109. So, there was definitely that learning curve, you know, initially.

Brad: Yeah, you hadn’t yet had the opportunity to understand variants\.

Shaundle: No.

Brad: And to understand the downswing and had the chance to build up your mental strength, right? Because that’s really what variance is and overcoming is building up your mental strength. So how did it feel going on that downswing when things were not going well?

Shaundle: It was, it was, it was bittersweet, you know. I, I didn’t like make a whole bunch of life altercations just because I had that money. So, it wasn’t like, mentally the, it’s more frustrating. I’m very competitive. So, as the downswings happening, I’m still working on my game at that time. I’m trying to understand, you know, what’s going on? Why are these guys so much better than I am? Why am I not winning? You know.

Brad: Let’s just dissect that word for a sec. What do you mean by competitive? Like, what is the competitive drive look like? What’s the internal dialogue?

Shaundle: The internal dialogue, it’s more of, you know, I believe in myself, I know I can compete, I see other guys doing extremely well at this. And I’m competing with myself to get to that level. And you know, it’s almost I’ll do whatever it takes. I’ll study as much as it takes, you know. I’ve always had that kind of drive in poker, probably one of the only reasons I’m here where I’ll study my ass off, or work my ass off or play as much move down stakes humbly, and, you know, get there, whatever it takes kind of deal. It’s really hard to explain, like.

Brad: No. It makes sense to me.

Shaundle: Someone else can do it. You know? Why can’t I do it, kind of deal? Like, it’s kind of frustrating. Like, they’re not that much smarter than me. I just have to work, if I have to work twice as hard. You know, we’ll eventually get there. That’s okay. Mind frame.

Brad: So, you said something that really strikes a chord and I think is ultra-valuable to the chasing poker greatness audience, and that’s compete with yourself. You’re competing with yourself every day. You’re not trying to be Phil Ivey. You’re not trying to be you know, whoever Tom Dwan, whatever, whoever your poker person is. You’re competing with you, and trying to be the best self that you can be day after day after day after day. And that takes you a lot further than trying to be somebody else.

Shaundle: I mean, who’s to say you won’t be greater than I mean, it’s a 

Brad: There you go. You might be.

Shaundle: You could be greater. You might be greater than Phil Ivey, one day. You might go under stretch harder than Bonomo like this. It’s not over, it’s, the story’s not over. So, you got to keep putting in that work. I just know nothing’s going to happen if I take in an inaction and complain.

Brad: And I love that. I love your internalization, your definition of competitive because sometimes, sometimes, I hear guys say, I’m just ultra-competitive, right? And then what that really means is they’re sore losers. That really means that they’re going to lose, and they’re going to throw a fit, and they’re going to make excuses and they’re going to blame everybody else for why they weren’t able to win. So, I am very happy that that wasn’t your answer. It’s very reassuring to me. I think that, that that’s an awesome mindset and way to be and that, like you said, you wouldn’t. I’m just going to go ahead and say you wouldn’t be where you’re at today without that mindset. That’s what’s carried you through.

Shaundle: Yeah, that’s, it’s a big part of you know, I, I took a lot of years off of poker after Black Friday. I mean, I’m sure we may get into that story a little bit.

Brad: Let’s get into it now. Let’s get into Black Friday. And where were you at, prior to Black Friday?

Shaundle: Man, I was, I was probably at my peak. You know, the funny, funny thing is, you know, I had been playing poker for six years, you know. I was making 60 to $100,000 a year playing the mid stakes. I was playing two sessions a day. I would, like wake up at nine and 10AM, you know, eat breakfast or whatnot, play from noon till 6pm, and then take a break, go work out and play from 8pm till night. Five days a week I was doing that. So, I was working my ass off. And, you know, life was good. Had a nice roll and everything. Probably had a little bit too much money online.

Brad: What was your

Shaundle: I know? You know, it was it was it would hover between like 60 to 100, you know. Between all sites and bank, personal bank accounts, whatnot. So, I was very comfortable in that and never really overexposed myself by trying to play 1ks or go buy into a 10k. I never really shot took like that. I would just always stick to, I’m going to play the occasional 500 here there, some shot take one case during the summer and then five days a week I’m just going to grind the 22 to the 102 to two fifteens every day, you know. But yeah, I mean, life was good, actually funny. The craziest part is the night of Black Friday, April 15th is my birthday. Black Friday’s April 14. I’d won the stars big 27th on April 24. April 14. So, the day of my birthday. And the night before Black Friday, I ended up winning the stars. Big 27 for 5k. Wake up in the morning. Boom Black Friday. No more online poker.

Brad: April, April 15 2015.

Shaundle: Yeah. Yeah, that’s a bad thing as well.

Brad: It’s an infamous day in the world of poker.

Shaundle: Yeah.

Brad: How did it feel? How much did you have online? How much did you get locked up?

Shaundle: Yeah, I’m not going to, I had, you know, a good bit.

Brad: Yeah.

Shaundle: Near 20 on hotel, which was lucky. I was fortunate not to have a lot locked up on ultimate bet you know. At the time, I only had a few grand on there. So, I was like, ah, that doesn’t hurt too bad but then got stars paid out two weeks after or something like that. But yeah, I had a, had a good day.

Brad: Were the emotions were you thinking?

Shaundle: I was, I was very lost. I didn’t know because I wasn’t built, playing poker is not a resume builder go figure. Especially when the economy was in the time, I was very lost man. I was very, very depressed. I could not, I worked my ass off to I couldn’t find a job.                                                        For about a year and a half, I was kind of unemployed and playing house guy. I was I was actually playing dangerous house games in the Akron area, you know, carrying around too much money in these games that were very shady. And I just didn’t approve, I didn’t like that environment. So, I couldn’t do that anymore.

Brad: Ever part of any robbery, or? 

Shaundle: No, but I know people that were in then. Most of these house games, were just cheating liens. Pretty much. I mean, guys stop playing each other signaling, you know, dealers raking $60, out of pot, you know, just whatever, whatever you can think of what was going on happened. I never was robbed or anything like that, or seen it take place. But I’ve heard of it happening at some of these locations. But I just didn’t feel safe doing that. So, I no longer considered that buyable to risk my life to go play some cash games, some illegal cash games, you know, for money. So, I had to I mean, I was very depressed, drank a lot, you know, couldn’t find a job playing, trying to play those games. And then eventually, you know, I just got into real estate. Took four years off of poker. I mean, I literally didn’t play any poker man. started a family. 

Brad: Why not? Why not?

Shaundle: It was really just so, so I don’t know. I didn’t really trust the online. We didn’t have a casino here at the time either. Casino was just like in the works. And I was just pretty sad and sick of the situation. You know, I just figured it was a past chapter in my life, something I had to move on from, you know, and just take, you know, at least I had those skills and they got me to this point in life. You know, I kind of hung it up for a while, which was sad to me. And you know, I had, I’ve always had friends tell me throughout the years, like, hey, man, I think you gave up something great there. You were one of the best players that I knew you made a lot of money doing that and stuff like that. And eventually that started to resonate, and get me back on the grind. And I had a guy I do business with, invite me to a league that plays once a month with WSOP league. It’s a lot of older people and stuff like that. And it’s a fun little league. I ended up winning the league, which was for the WSOP main event. This is what really got me back into the game. So, I was only playing poker once a month. But I ended up winning this league, winning the main event final game, which was a $12,000 package to play at a main, which was three years ago now. And I played the main, just went out there strictly for that. I had been, I started back online just to get some volume in you know, a little bit.

Brad: Where’d you play?

Shaundle: I was just, just playing on ACR in ignition as well.

Brad:  Ignition. Yeah.

Shaundle: Yeah, I just had like, I just put like 400 bucks on both sides. And I was just playing a little bit. You know, if you united, we just to get hands before I went out to play the main, so I wasn’t a complete fish and I just wanted to do well, you know.

Brad: Of course. That, because that’s who you are right? I think internally, you’re not, you’re going to the main. Play one tournament. And that’s it and come home. But you can’t let yourself go out there unprepared. You just you don’t have an in you to lay, to go unprepared. So, you like, it’s like compulsive. Which that compulsive preparation to you listening in the audience? Get that. Find that preparation for the game. Don’t just, you know people go out there with an expectation but then don’t prepare, like always prepare.

Shaundle: You don’t know. I mean, you never know. Like, of course, I’m not going to I’m probably going to be one of the I mean, at the time, probably one of the worst players in the field completely.

Brad: No chance. No, no.

Shaundle: I mean, not one of the words that I shouldn’t say what that is. 

Brad: That is way too much humility coming through you. I not know, just knowing your backstory, and knowing how you treated the game, your top 80%, especially in the main event field for sure, probably even 90 or 95%.

Shaundle: But I hadn’t played in four years. And I was only playing like low stakes online to prepare myself. But you know, I went out there May, May day three and busted a couple 100, maybe two or 300 before the money. I don’t remember, I was pretty devastated. But then I had, you know, a decision to make with myself, am I going to keep playing poker? Or am I going to just go back to, you know, still trying to be one of the at the time I wanted to be one of the best. I wanted to be the number one real estate agent in Ohio because if I’m doing anything, I’m doing a shitload of sales. And I was doing very well, you know, with that I was doing like 20-30 sales a year as a solo agent, which isn’t bad.

Brad: I have no idea what to compare that to.

Shaundle: Yeah.

Brad: For a frame of reference, what is like a normal what’s an average year

Shaundle: The average real estate agent. According to the National Association of Realtors, that’s six transactions a year. Oh, I was like, Yeah, I was, I think I did like 32 or five accent. So I was doing a lot. And I was kind of getting burned out doing that. So, I had to decide if I wanted to continue doing that and build a team and whatnot. Or if I wanted to continue to play poker, and then, just get that back up and took some time and just decided to come back to poker. You know? And yeah, that’s where we are now. You know,

Brad: I love that. That’s a, perseverance in the poker journey is oftentimes not linear. I can empathize a 100% with all the posts, Black Friday emotions. I didn’t realize at the time that I could get fired, and I got fired, and has

Shaundle: Exactly.

Brad: Actually, had zero backup plan. And at first, it was like shock and denial, oh, my God, it’s going to be fine. I’ll figure something else out. And then all of a sudden, it’s like, holy shit.

Shaundle: I have nothing. What do I do with my time?

Brad: Who’s going to be paying me $100 an hour for the knowledge that I have? Like, nobody is going to do that, right? So, I went a different route I but I did play in a lot of the home games. Also, a lot of times scared out of my mind. Just it’s a nerve wracking situation, the place where I lived is not ultra-wealthy. And I play the big PLO games and cash out 6000. And, you know, some of these places, these games are big. This place had like 10 tables, it was basically a poker room, right? And they’re like, cash me out, you know, in front of the one-two game and I’m looking at them, but there’s 52 bucks in front of them. And they’re looking at me getting you know, getting handed a stack of $6,000 and then I’m just out into the void at 2am walking in my car and I’m like, this

Shaundle: This is so sketchy.

Brad: Yeah, you get paranoid I’m like, is somebody following me? Like, you know, I’m you know, it’s a, it’s not a good situation. So, I eventually opted to travel to play cards, because still, no matter how many people I asked, they wouldn’t pay me $100 an hour to bag groceries or whatever it was. So, poker is always a big part, but yeah, it’s our journeys are parallel there. I’m glad you got back in. I think it’s, it seems like a passion for you. And passion drives people and motivates people and takes them far. What do you think your biggest poker success is thus far?

Shaundle: For me, honestly, I had, I’ve done a lot. You know, I had a lot of little achievements. You know, I was, I had the opportunity of doing the Best Day of Poker Show with Phil Hellmuth and Annie Duke twice. I was only one to get to do it twice. But those are really like poker achievements. Like I’ve been out to Aruba. I’ve got to travel the world. But honestly, right now it’s coming back to the game and I had a, I really wanted to win a major when I got back. And I’ve been fortunate enough to be able to do that, since I’ve came back to streaming and to poker.

Brad: What was the major? What was the score?

Shaundle: I won the Mad Monday main event when the ignition for 13k, while also winning another tournament the day before. I think it was the lucky sevens for like, 3k. And then I won, I got second in the 109, the 160-200k. And then in the same day one, the 1096, max 10k, which went over four. Was that 5k as well? So, it was like a 20k, over a 20k day. And I had the opportunity to do that two times in the calendar year. And, you know, I’m not going to, I was just really, it felt really good, because up to that point, you know, I had got coaching and I created a study group, we study two times a week, for about four to five hours a day. And then, you know, just working my ass off and actually making these things happens. After coming back to the game, where I had to, I started at the micros, you know, I didn’t just put a bunch of money back online, you know, I didn’t buy my way to the mid stakes or the high stakes. I started out playing $3, $5, and $11 tournaments. And then I started streaming. You know, I was still playing, you know, at that point, probably $50 tournaments. You know, I wouldn’t really play to me 109 too often when I first started streaming. So, to achieve these things and build the stream, and do it in front of people who support me is, it’s just amazing to be on it. I mean, that feels the best.

Brad: Yeah, I can imagine.

Shaundle: Yeah.

Brad: What do you make of that success? After taking that? Like, what is it? What does it mean, as far as setting yourself up in the future?

Shaundle: It just, it just shows like, yeah, I mean, I’m capable of, you know, playing every good poker, capable. I just, it means for me that, you know, what’s next, like, what I have to work harder to achieve? You know, now I wouldn’t, I would love to try to hit a six-figure score 50k plus, something like that. That’s I got my sights set on just bigger scores, and just getting a lot better. And working harder. You know that’s all. It’s really on my mind.

Brad: Time to unlock some new challenges.

Shaundle: Yes, exactly.

Brad: Keep playing. Keep going. Keep moving forward.

Shaundle: Exactly.

Brad: So, what’s the biggest regret of your poker career?

Shaundle: Oh, what is the biggest regret? Ah, I don’t know. Maybe not coming back sooner or not really pursuing it

Brad: That was the vantage point.

Shaundle: After Black Friday. It just didn’t seem, it just didn’t seem practical at the time. I still regret not coming back sooner. But I really don’t have too many regrets. You know, I think when I played pre-Black Friday, I did my best. I didn’t pumped off an insane amount of money or do anything to stupid. I’m sure I’ve said you know, done dumb things with money, but nothing too regrettable. I guess it’s, you know, what, what would have happened if I would not have stopped playing for four years? Like how good if I stayed determined and stayed with it for all that time? What would my life be? What would it look like? You know, what, where would I be today? If I kept playing in status passionate? You know, that that’s kind of something that always crosses my mind.

Brad: Yeah. Well, you got time. You know, we’re

Shaundle: I’m still young. Yeah.

Brad: Yeah. We’re, you know, we’re relatively young. So, there’s time right? There’s time to think all the, all those scores, and it’s not like we have like a super time limit, right? It’s

Shaundle: Exactly.

Brad: Doyle’s like 130 or so and he’s

Shaundle: Still crushing ‘til this day.

Brad: Still okay. Right. So, let’s move on to sort of, to the process of self-improvement as far as it’s related to poker. What would you say is the most high impact action you’ve taken to improve your poker game?

Shaundle: I’ve got I mean, I went through phases especially last year while it was extremely obsessed with trying to get better. I can’t tell you how much time I would spend a week. But for me, the most important thing is I formed a study group with a buddy of mine. I got 24th in the tag team event last year, and I teamed up with a guy I had just talked to God’s big Jared Gavin. Another streamer Gods big toe. Good friend of mine, like one of my best friends in poker. We started talking you know, after we made the deep run in the Tag Team, and we formed a study group. And the whole objective is to utilize everything we can, if it’s razor edge, if it’s different, some people get coaching. It’s a group about four or five of us. And we just bring everything together. And you know, I think that’s been the best, you know, I get, I’m coach, I have a personal coach myself, you know, there’s PAYO, there’s hand history reviews. I’m just, I’m just doing everything I can.

Brad: When you, when you say you bring all those things together, what do you mean by that?

Shaundle: Well, you know, I have a coach. So, some of those concepts, everybody’s bringing different concepts. So, I might not have the entire time to study every single section of raise your edge or something like that, or someone may not have time to go through a certain concept on over betting. So, we just all make sure we’re taking notes, taking the, you know, the, I guess, the clip notes from those things, and then we break them down and try to understand and study on them on our own. But I’m just getting a little, I’m getting pieces of information from other very good players. And we’re kind of shaping those, and, you know, trying to incorporate into our own game as well. So,

Brad: So aggregating information with caveat players and then discerning the high impact information that you want to study deeper, correct?

Shaundle: Correct.

Brad: Cool. I think that’s it. That’s a good, that’s a great way to learn. And who’s your poker coach, by the way?

Shaundle: Ryan Laplant.

Brad: Ah, nice.

Shaundle: Yeah, yeah. Ryan Laplant, he’s been coaching me for about a year now.

Brad: What’s his website? I know he has a website.

Shaundle: Learn Pro Poker. It’s great. It’s only 25 bucks a month, and the price will go up because he puts out damn good content. He’s very good. And you know, what’s nice about that is, you know, he is very strong theoretically in GTO, but he understands how to incorporate exploitative strategies, you know, as well. And I think you need a good combination of both. Because people who get stuck at the mid stakes, usually just really strong theoretically, but they don’t, they don’t exploit, you know, the bad players enough, even online. They’re just trying to play theoretically sound. But that’s not going to be the highest win rate, because you got to exploit the bad players to make the most.

Brad: Right. And you may disagree with this statement. But it’s, I guess it could be a polarizing statement. But I actually don’t believe there is exploitative play. I think that there’s only GTO, and you have good data, and great data and bad data. And if you have incorporating great data that allows you to play optimally, versus people who are playing sub optimal, and that is the essence of exploitation.

Shaundle: Right.

Brad: So, to me, there, there really is only GTO, there’s no, you’re exploiting their tendencies with great data effectively, right?

Shaundle: Fair enough. I mean, unless you have specific information on the type of mistakes they’re going to be making, like if you know, a guy’s just going to be always folding to certain size bets, or they’re just never going to continue as they should. I just think if you are room

Brad: No, I see what you’re saying. It’s maybe it’s semantics. But what I’m saying is, if you know, they’re never folding, if you put that information into a solver, it’s going to tell you not to bluff, right?

Shaundle: Right. Right.

Brad: I mean, this is, so like it’s all GTO, just the level of data as far as how good it is and that you’re using. So, it’s you know, poker is a great game of data and data collection. And I tell people be very, be very wary of GTO. Be very wary of just incorporating things, blanket across all situations, because all humans are different, and get good at data collection. That can, that to me really elevate your game. And, you know, there are people you know, I hear people say, oh, I want to be balanced. And this spot right, and say call it say it’s a live spot, and I’m there collecting the data and watching and I’m like, they never fold there. Like, you’re trying to bluff to maintain a sense of balance when nobody in the world knows. One way or the other. There’s no sample size. And they’re never folding like why bluff somebody that is never folding, right? It’s just

Shaundle: I just have to balance my bluff range in a spot where somebody’s never folding. Yeah.

Brad: Right, let’s just torch some money and say, you know, I have reasons for this, but I’m never going to tell you. And you know, people will just look at you like you’re fucking crazy person. Anyway, that’s my rant on my little, my little rant there. But it’s just, it’s so easy to excuse poor play by saying that its GTO. It’s like an excuse. Oh, this is GTO. So, I’m going to excuse my bad decision. No, you’re making an excuse for playing poorly and limiting your growth as a poker player.

Shaundle: Right?

What is up you future star of poker, you. Coach Brad here and I just wanted to take a moment to let you know about PKC poker. If you’re sitting there wondering, why? Why is coach Brad promoting this PKC poker app thing? Allow me a moment to explain my why. Battling in cash games has been my livelihood for the past 15 years. It’s how I survive and put food on the table, which makes it imperative that I either test out or seek qualified opinions on all the poker platforms on the market. One juicy fine can mean the difference between a meh year and an amazing family vacation and why kind of year. With that said I’ve tried almost all the major poker apps on the market to date and despite the hype about amazingly juicy games, I’ve come away from the experience unsatisfied. I was just never able to find amazing success against seemingly weak competition. And in one specific case was getting outright destroyed by passive villains playing more than 50% of their hands. What the heck was going on? After many evenings sitting in the bathtub, wondering if I had lost it, I finally dug into the data and learn something that shouldn’t have been too surprising to you. These dudes were colluding and super using their pants off. So, I swore off those free money, decentralized devil apps and decided to go back to my more familiar streets of ignition. It was then that I was contacted by a good friend of mine who turned out to be the Vice President of Worldwide Operations at PKC. Him and I had a long in-depth conversation about security, the ecosystem and the future direction of PKC, and he managed to convince me to give it a shot. That shot turned into an incredible six months with an hourly rate, that’s about five times what it would have been playing on any other US platform. As it turns out, I didn’t forget how to play, I just needed a level playing field to return to my crushing whites. I have no doubt that you, my community, my audience is going to play poker somewhere. And I want to be damn sure that you don’t go through the pain and frustration I felt by messing around with any poker app besides PKC. This is why promoting PKC is a no brainer. I love my community. And I want to put you in the best position to succeed at this game that we both love so much. So, if you’d like to join me in the streets of PKC, simply head to enhanceyouredge.com/pkc and get your invite code to play. You must have an invite code and you must be 21 years of age or older. One more time, that’s enhanceyouredge.com/pkc. Best of luck, and now on with the show.

 

Brad: What’s something that you feel folks who are chasing their poker dreams don’t spend enough time thinking about?

Shaundle: I just think people don’t spend enough time studying. They don’t think about bankroll management studying like, I think people honestly don’t realize how much you have to sacrifice. I think that’s I think that’s the number one thing like, I don’t, I personally don’t watch TV. I don’t I don’t have cable. I pretty much don’t watch sports or anything either. I got to spend my time with my family, the kids taking care of the house, studying and playing and streaming, like I have there, and try to stay healthy on top of all that, like I don’t have time to watch a whole Browns game. I love the Browns and I love the Cavs and their shows that look cool, but I don’t have, you know, I don’t have time to, I don’t go out to the bars upon. Sure, you know with my buddies do stuff like that.

Brad: On the flip side is I think it’s pretty easy to skip Browns and Cavs games right now. Don’t worry, it’s easy for me to skip the Titans games not to, not you know. We’re both suffers

Shaundle: Yeah.

Brad: In that sense. But yeah, like it takes a lot. You mentioned something about bankroll and people not thinking about their bankroll enough. Can you expand on that?

Shaundle: Well, it’s a little bit different. Like for me, I, even though I started with a small bankroll, like, I played it aggressively. And I didn’t just, I still played low stakes. But I still think for an eight, if I’m playing with a $400 rule, I probably should never really playing a $20 tournament. Like that’s not, that’s not optimal. I want to try and take and do that. But I think it’s very important to stay in the framework of a bankroll management. I think it’s a little bit different for everybody, because some people have disposable income, a job they don’t need to pull from the role. But I would just suggest that people don’t shot take too much. Stay with like if you have $1,000 roll, you probably just stick with $11 tournaments. In that shot take a 22 hair in there. Don’t play $11 rebuys and things like that. And you know, you’re going to be all right. One thing, I don’t know, I just want to touch on this because I was just kind of coaching somebody, I coach a few micro-stakes players as well. Like building a bankroll, it’s not just playing on one site, like I think playing the best value tournaments across a few sites is going to be very helpful at your timeframe, rather than just pigeonholing yourself in one place. I mean, obviously, it’s possible, you can do that. I just found that very helpful. Throughout my career, when I was coming through the stakes, I would always just find multiple sites. It would give me more opportunities and more bullet, volume as well. And you know, you might find a different player build weaker or population a little bit weaker than another. So that’s one thing as well,

Brad: Yeah. I’m 100% in agreement. I tell my guys, I’m a cash game player. So, I don’t play tournaments, but always my advice is, you know, if there’s a platform, if there’s something new, test it out, like at least, at least make a small deposit. Something that you’re not super concerned about, and test out the games. Fill out the population. Try it, like if you can find a population that’s much weaker than what you’re currently battling against, find them battle them. Like the more of those little holes you can find, the better your, the higher your earn rates going to be. Your hourly rate improves, your win rate improves, you make more money. And as we all know, when you make more money, you can afford to pay coaches, you can afford to buy all the training material, which also, you know, you invest in yourself. And that also, you know, your growth becomes exponential at that point.

Shaundle: Right.

Brad: And I do have, I’m a cash game player. So, I’ll offer my contrary bankroll management opinion. And that’s, that is, I don’t think you should subject yourself to micro stakes, if you have disposable income. Like so many guys will play five, no limit, and they’ll get stuck there. And they’ll try to move up to 10 no limit. And I’m just, it kind of boggles my mind when you could go out and get any job and make more, than battling in the streets of 10 NL. So, but the larger your bankroll gets, that’s when you want to protect it, right? The smaller it is, you know, if you got a $400 rolling, and you torch it, you can go get a job and make 400 bucks, right?

Shaundle: Right.

Brad: You can replace that. If you got a 100k and you torch that. Okay, now you’re hurt, right? So, the smaller the bank roll, in my opinion, the more risks you should take. And the larger, the smaller risks, but within, with that in mind, if you’re pro posable, right?

Shaundle: Like how much money you can get back into the game. How long you want to be in the game and whatnot. Yeah, I agree with that. Like, I’m sorry, I did not mean to cut you off. I was just thinking out loud.

Brad: No, no, no, cut me off. I don’t care.

Shaundle: No, no, just saying like, yeah, I do agree with that. And if you, it kind of feels like a waste of time if you’re really trying to move up stakes, and you’re 35 years old, you got a job and you’re coming home, and you’re just trying to learn the game. And you’re just stuck at five, no limit or something like that. If you’re just stuck at $5 tournament, you can’t go up, you know. Why not just study a lot? You know, study more than you play, and then just deposit a bit more money to play the 11th and 20s. I think people play, should be playing studying a lot more than they’re playing it. I think people who are willing to

Brad: What’s the ratio? What ratio do you think?

Shaundle: I mean, if I would say, a safe ratio would probably be if you’re a losing player, you should probably be 70-30. You should be studying 70%.

Brad: Wow. That’s a big ratio.

Shaundle: I really, I don’t think anybody who’s losing is going to see the value in that because they probably just have fun playing. They’re not really understanding that you need that much work. You know, they’re just thinking there’s probably luck involved, or I don’t know, like, what we’re really thinking about that. But I really think they should at least 60-40 study to play if you, if you’re a losing player. If you’re a winning player, it needs to be you know, I don’t know what my ratio is now, but I’m studying one to like, three to four days a week, and I’m probably spending for a do poker coaching to in like 12 hours a week. Studying at the minimum and then I’m playing, you know, four to five nights a week. So, my ratio is probably 80-20. You know, as somebody who plays as a winning player.

Brad: Have we, okay. I want to study more. What does that mean? What does that look like? Yeah.

Shaundle: Yeah. So, if I wanted to study more, what does that look like? And I’m someone just trying to get better. Okay, if I had no money, what would I do? Where would I start? There’s free material everywhere. For instance, pokercoaching.com has free quizzes and things like that. There’s free content all over YouTube and whatnot. But I would say the most important thing you need is some kind of poker tracker to really take the analytics of your play if you’re playing online, and kind of seeing where your links are, seeing where your tee time, seeing where you’re losing the most money.

Brad: How do you, how do you figure that out?

Shaundle: Well, for me, I had to get a coach or find someone, I’m sure there’s probably resources out there to kind of see what the baselines should be or what some winning players baseline would be if you’re looking at your statistics in a report on poker tracker four. But you kind of want to see what some of the best graphs and what some of the best hugs look like and see, okay, what am I doing wrong in my game, or if that’s too deep for you, just looking back through your hands, and just replaying hands. So, you’re seeing your subconscious, seeing what mistakes you’re making, or where you’re losing your money. Because I used to go through him and he’s like, oh, man, I could have opened that spot. Or you learn something about another player doing something. And I just think this all helps you process the information better and naturally get a little bit better as you’re reviewing these hands yourself.

Brad: And this was touched on with another conversation that I had on the Chasing Poker Greatness podcast, that journaling, writing down your thoughts, and even if it’s just stream of consciousness, on specific hands that you’ve played, this is a tangible representation of your thought process. When you journal, and then you look back on it two months, you can see how you have improved. You can see the mistakes that you were making. And it’s a tangible, it’s not abstract. You know, you can’t say I’m getting better every day. I’m getting better every day. Well, how do you know? How do you prove that? Right? We need some data. And I think journaling is another great tool that you can see like, oh, well, okay, yeah, I am making strides in the right direction. I do see where I was messing up.

Shaundle: You know, what else is good for that? Streaming. 

Brad: That’s true.

Shaundle: Streaming. I ever seen my stream. I talked through my thought process, for every single decision, what I’m thinking about the villain’s range, how I think I should be reacting in these situations, through everything. I’m not just clicking the button, and then sitting there looking at the screen hoping, you know, I’m trying to talk my viewers through how a solid winning player thinks about the game. And then what I think about different ranges and whatnot. And I’m always trying to improve in my thought processes. And I’m always thinking out loud, and for me, that’s the most fun. I don’t need anything else. I need a few people to watch me and for me to be able to think out loud and always be my brain going. I really enjoyed that.

Brad: I’ve heard from multiple higher stakes pros, that when they were, they just record themselves play and talk through all of their decisions while they’re playing, even to an empty room. And they say that that is another high impact thing that helps them improve their game. But yeah, that’s, that’s a great tool. Stream. Stream to nobody and talk to your, talk through your processes. And then you can watch it back and review it later on. I think that’s another great, great tool for poker growth.

Shaundle: Yeah, I think that that’s actually a great idea. Then you can just see, you can just take Camtasia and you can record your, or something yeah. I think that’s, I think that would be very helpful. I used to journal back in the day. I would write out my thoughts or write out how my sessions go, and things like that, or take notes and things like that. So that’s also a good suggestion, something I used to do back in the day as well.

Brad: And on my website, when people opt in, they it’s called the rate, the edge system. But basically, it’s a system of journaling and self-reflection that allows you to self-analyze how your thought process, how you play the hand, what you would do differently in the future, and that sort of thing. And that’s ultra-valuable as well. But basically, ask good questions, tangibly track your stream of consciousness and your thought processes. And then, you know, review them, and to make sure that you keep moving in the right direction.

Shaundle: Yep. For later.

Brad: What do you think people, poker players spend too much time thinking about?

Shaundle: Probably, they’re on their misfortune. It has to be they’re getting unlucky rather than you know, why am I getting so unlucky? I took this beat. I’ve been running bad. A lot of those negative thoughts are very harmful. Rather than accepting that this game. There’s a shitload of variance. There’s nothing you can do about it. Even the greatest, most winningest players go through swings, and that you should just be worrying about did you make enough right decisions, could to afford taking that bad beat? Could I have made more chips that if I took that bad beat, that I would still have chips left, you know, more so than just the luck?

Brad: How do you, what’s your process look like to neutralize those negative thoughts, negative emotions, like just as far as like a pure actionable thing?

Shaundle: Play a lot. I don’t know, I play. I play a ton of tables, you know, and I have to control myself as well since I stream. And I want to be a good example. I’m not always, I get tilted, sometimes momentarily on stream, you know, but I.

Brad: How do you recover?

Shaundle: Just telling myself mentally, like, you know, I have an audience here, or I have tournaments left, you know. I can, you can always day say. I can’t tell you how many times I’ve been stuck on a Sunday and have won my last tournament to get unstuck or day saved, or do something very well in my last tournament. And that comes from having a strong mental game where I know people, oh, I’m running bad this session. I think, I think I’m going to just take the day off. Like, no matter how bad I’m running in any session, online, I’m playing it out. And I’m going to keep registering until my cutoff time, every single time. I’m never going to stop registering a session, because it didn’t go well, or like, because it just doesn’t matter in the long run. It’s one long session. And I think just mentally focusing on getting mentally stronger and those spots, are is what’s going to help separate me from some people who just want to give up because it’s going too hard today or something like that, you know.

Brad: And at the end of the day, you’re probably going to like out volume them by 2X at the end of at the end of the year, I should say. So, which obviously directly impacts your yearly rate as well. If you could go back in time, give that kid messing around, playing cards in college, some wisdom, just have a conversation with him. What would that talk look like?

Shaundle: I still, even to this day, I think I would have got better study. I think I just would have, I worked very hard. I don’t think I network as well as I could have.

Brad: What’s the value of a network? What do you mean by that?

Shaundle: Right now, I just think, I wish I would have tried to work with better, better, better and better players, because I was, although I was doing very well, pretty Black Friday, I was kind of just stuck at the mid stakes and never, you know, hit a massive, massive scores, you know. I got a couple 20k scores and a lot of 10k scores, 5k. But I never had the massive, massive success for as much as I played in the bigger games then. And I wish I would have just focused or maybe taking more shots back then. And when I say network, I mean maybe reach out to players that were much, much better than me in work and study with them, because I had a small group. But those were all guys that I brought into me that I were back then I was better than, you know. So, if I could go back, I would certainly try to just study and work with players that are much better than me. And I think that would have helped move up. And I think finding people, if you’re going to create a poker group out there, guys, make sure you find that people better than you, worse than you if possible, you know. If you can find players, if you can have a group with all killers better than you. Awesome. But it’s really, I think you get to a point where it starts to get harder and harder to provide value to somebody elite players like that and be part of their groups.

Brad: So, you talked about finding these crushers, right. What is, what is the process look like? Somebody sitting out there? Thinking like, oh, yeah, it’s easy to say find a crusher and get their group, like what is the actual, like, outreach process look like? Are you emailing them?

Shaundle: For me, no. Well, I mean, for me, that’s a byproduct. I guess, the positive thing for me about streaming, right, like a lot of guys see how hard I work. They come in a stream or Ryan, you know, he’s seen that I streamed and, you know, I’m an affiliate for those guys. And, you know, he was okay coaching me. And he doesn’t just coach any and everybody that contacts them, you know. He knows I’m going to work hard and represent his brand well. And you know, Jonathan Liddell was, well, I had a chance to meet him. And, you know, I’m a guest coach for those guys. They, it’s just being out in the community, people knowing you’re a hard worker. It makes it easier to contact and get in contact with people when you’re putting yourself out there as a hard worker, someone who wants to be a part of the community and not being shy. But if I was someone that was just a micro stakes grinder with nobody, you know, just maybe actually, maybe you at your local casino being a little bit more friendly in the one-two games and things like that to some of the guys that are a little bit better than you. You know, buying somebody a beer one day and talking poker and then kind of, you know, expanding from there. I can’t teach people how to be friends. You know, you just got to be friendly and nice and confident. And yourself.

Brad: I will offer one suggestion. And it’s a trick as old as time. And that is grease the wheels. You want Ryan LaPlant, you want Jonathan Little, you want to get involved in their study group, buy their stuff, buy their coaching, like become a customer. I’m serious, like, you know it, if somebody just reaches out to me cold and they’re playing micro stakes, and they’re struggling, like I will respond and talk to them. But I only have so much time in the day, right?

Shaundle: Right.

Brad: Somebody pays a $100 for a course or whatever it is, and invest themselves into what I’m creating. And me, then now I need to invest in that person. And I need to give them as much value as I possibly can because they took a risk in me. So then that relationship, you know, you’re much more willing to engage. And I know, it sounds kind of bad saying just bribe them. But it’s really there, you’re investing in them, and then they invest in you because you’re a brand ambassador at that point. You’re going to represent them moving forward in the poker world. And plus, it’s cool as hell, as a creator, when somebody buys your thing, and spends money and says hey, I like you enough to give you money for what you’re doing. So, I would just add that as well. If you know you’re super shy, just get on, get out the wallet.

Shaundle: You know that’s funny, you just said I think I did it for both. I got, I have a premium membership to poker coaching and I had obviously before Brian had to sign up. I contacted them to buy coaching. So.

Brad: There you go. Right, like.

Shaundle: Yeah.

Brad: I think that that’s one of the secrets. So, if you could give the Chasing Poker Greatness audience one book to read on life or poker, what would it be and why?

Shaundle: I’m not a big book reader.

Brad: Okay, what about a piece of content, a piece of media something, a document, documentary?

Shaundle: Man, a piece of content that just stuck with me or sticks with me. You got to give me like two seconds. I’m trying to think I’m, I’m just so all over the place. I don’t really. But when I say I don’t know, I’m a big motivational guy, I guess. Like I’m a, I like somebody like Eric Thomas, the motivational speaker. When times get tough or I mentally start to feel fatigued. I would say for me, I find value in that, you know. The pieces of study will tip the book here I’ve been reading, you know, expert, No Limit hold’em. I think that’s a fantastic book. The World Tipton series. But for me, I, I think this is all mental. I think it’s all mental game where you chat, you just have to be able to challenge yourself. So, whatever that may be, whatever piece of motivation you can find out there with motivational speakers, if it’s music, whatever it is, being at peace. Whatever gets you at peace competitive, and you know, just take that route. I don’t really have a piece of content I would hang my hat on.

Brad: You’re, well, you’re going to, you’re going to have one to hang your hat on. It’ll end. We’ll end our show. And then it’ll like pop in your head. Like magic.

Shaundle: Like, oh, there it is.

Brad: Yeah.

Shaundle: It’s this book.

Brad: It’ll be in the show notes. For those of you after the show, we’ll put you know, when it comes to Shaundle, we’ll put it in the show notes. It’ll be there for you all to check out. We’ll also put the motivational stuff because

Shaundle: Yeah. The motivational stuff. I really like that stuff.

Brad: Yeah, motivational stuff is important. And mental strength. You’re right. Every, poker is a mental game. And it’s also a physical game too, I think. Take care of your body. Because your body powers your brain, your nutrition, all these things, the soft skills that improve your poker game. But being mentally strong, not blaming anybody else, just moving forward, asking yourself good questions. And that, that more than anything, get you places.

Shaundle: Yeah, those optics of just really focusing on yourself, your grind and your self-improvement in this game, not, because it’s easy to look out there and see a lot of people crushing it, but like, man, while he’s doing this, why am I not? What am I missing? But you just got to focus on your own grind. And that’ll take you pretty, pretty far.

Brad: And you don’t even know if that’s the real story. Right? 

Shaundle: You don’t you don’t like people are stuck, how much or if they’re backed or whatnot?

Brad: Yeah, like somebody’s been on the tour for 15 years. And they’ve got 8 million in winnings. And you’re like, oh, wow, you know, 8 million winnings? Well, yeah, they’re traveling around the country playing 10Ks everywhere. Like, you’re not taking out any of the expenses. I mean, let’s take out, let’s take out, let’s just calculate all my cash game wins without subtracting any losses over the years and you know, probably one, $100 million, right like, it’s so. Yeah, don’t be so hard on yourself. Everybody struggles. It’s just, it’s the nature of the game. And the people that can overcome that keep getting up. They’re the ones that succeed in the long term. So, we’ve got a few more questions here.

Shaundle: No problem.

Brad: If you got time.

Shaundle: Yes sir.

Brad: What’s something about poker you used to strongly believe? And you’re, you’ve recently changed your mind. And what led to that change?

Shaundle: Something, I guess I used to before I came back, I didn’t know anything about the solvers. Like I just thought, like, I know, there was strategy and everything. I just think, I used to think there were just groups of people who could out think the game. Yeah, before I knew, because I was out of the game for four years. And then I come back, and there’s bunker solver and all this stuff like, whoa, what the hell is going on? I used to believe, like, there were guys to just have developed skills and strategies on their own, which is kind of true. And that was still taking place, like guys are just working harder, thinking and just had access to the better players. Because that was definitely the case pre-Black Friday, where there weren’t really as many solvers. I think there was still poker trackers, but no one really knew how to decipher him as well.

Brad: I see Rev.

Shaundle: Yeah. Yeah. I don’t even think I was familiar with even that. I don’t know. No, I, I mean, I’m a big fan of that kind of stuff. And something else. I used to think back then that I don’t believe in as much now. Yeah, I’m not I’m not sure. I really don’t know what that guy used to think as much you know, after that much time off. I just remember playing a shitload and being competent thinking, I’m never going do anything else in my life. This is a long gone. Like, like now what? Yeah, so? Yeah, I used to just think like, people were just.

Brad: That’s a thing right there.

Shaundle: Yeah.

Brad: You used to think it would last forever.

Shaundle: That is it. Yeah. I used to think they would, never, I said it to myself many times and I told it to my girlfriend, now wife, are back then that, oh, I’m just going to do this. I don’t, I’m not even going to worry about like, I have a college education and, you know, degree and everything. And I just didn’t think I was going to do anything else. And now, I can’t imagine only doing poker because I like investing. And I like other, there’s so many cool ways to make money. You know? You know, I really, I love real estate. Not selling it as much, but I still love the game. And yeah, I’m always going to have more hustles now, so than just poker.

Brad: Yeah, it’s a fool me once, shame on you. Fool me twice, shame on me, right?

Shaundle: Yeah, I’m not going to get fooled and have another Black Friday and do have to be like, oh my God. Now I had kids, so I can’t afford to.

Brad: Well, you can sell them. There’s a black market for the kids. I’ve got two. I’ve got two we can put them on there. They we can work out some sort of bundle.

Shaundle: Right. Yeah.

Brad: What’s your current big goal, man?

Shaundle: What’s my current big goal?

Brad: That motivates you that drives you?

Shaundle: Yeah, I would, I just bought this house. I would love to just pay it off, a little bit of debt. Nothing crazy. Pay off all the debt in this house and just pay off this house from poker. Told my wife I was going to do that. And that’s what I’m going to do. No matter how long it takes me grinding to do it.

Brad: So, chasing poker greatness audience pay attention to that. That is a great goal. That is, this is a man that knows how to set goals. That’s an emotional goal. It’s driven. You know, it’s not a, it’s not a I’m going to win. WPT 10k. event. He told his wife he’s going to pay off his house. It’s emotional. And it’s tangible. And it’s something that drives you, right? Taking care of family, providing for your family. That’s something that, that pushes you. Just pure money, pure prestige, pure fame. That’s another way to do it. For me. It doesn’t do it for anybody. They’re toxic, toxic goals. There’s no longevity. They need to be emotional and mean something. So, when you’re thinking about setting your poker goals, think along those lines, right? Make them emotional, because emotional goals drive you. They motivate you when you don’t feel like going. They motivate you when you’re getting crushed. 

Shaundle: And remember to tell people about that. Like I told my wife I’m

Brad: Exactly.

Shaundle: And now you have a sense of I have to get this done. You know, I don’t

Brad: Yeah.

Shaundle: I don’t want to disappoint her myself. Like I have to do this. Like there’s no, there’s no failure in it. You know, I just, it kind of helps it resonate. And it just helps you stay motivated. When you know you told somebody else about your goal to do something like that.

Brad: And we all have a self-image that we want to live up to. And when you verbalize that it makes it makes the goal stronger. Tell people, going to create accountability. Every goal needs accountability. When you tell people, you know you can say a think yourself I’m going to quit smoking. I’m going to lose 20 pounds. When you get on Facebook and you say, I’m going to lose 20 pounds by this date, and then everybody’s cheering you on, now shit got real. Now people are counting on you. Now, when people are going to call you out on that date, you better have been working towards that goal, right? So that built in accountability is just massive, massive. What’s a project you’re working on that’s near and dear to your heart?

Shaundle: Well, I got two. I think I mentioned it before, like, well, one with the stream, you know. I don’t really have a lot of goals. Like, I’m not one of the guys that thinks I’m going to be the biggest streamer in the world there, I’m ever going to beat out like style house or anything like that, because we’re not in the market for it. I’m not in the European market. I don’t play stars at poker party. So that’s not possible. But I do have a goal of continuing. I just want to be one of the top American streamers. And I think I’m doing a pretty good job of that right now for my time slot. And, you know, pretty cool goal is I’ve got an opportunity to create some content for poker coaching, and I’ve got a couple quizzes, they’re allowing me to make more. So, I want to expand that relationship into a full-time position with them, you know. I think that would be pretty cool, as well. So little projects like that for me. And then, you know, outside of that real estate, I’m trying to get into real estate investing. I would like to buy a few houses, flip those this year, in my spare time. And, you know, just start there as well.

Brad: Awesome, man. That’s awesome. So, at the end of the day, what would you like your poker legacy to be? And how would you like the you know, the poker community to remember you?

Shaundle: Just somebody who is worked extremely hard, probably. You know, I don’t, like when I stream I’m just mentally, I’m always trying to tell myself to play hard. Leave it all on the table, not take shortcuts, not get lazy. Try not to get tilted. And you know, get a little bit better every day.

Brad: Where does that positive self-talk come from? Like, where does it emanate from?

Shaundle: I mean, I was, I’ve always been an athlete, my whole life. I was a football player. I think, the wrestling aspect of it when I was a wrestler as well, a pretty good wrestler, and ran track. But I think like that playing football, and wrestling as hard as those sports were, and I was all in when I was in school, plan those. So, it really kind of changed me mentally, especially something like wrestling where it’s mano y mano, if you get your ass kicked, you’re going to be getting your ass kicked in front of a bunch of people. But you know.

Brad: That’s accountability.

Shaundle: That’s accountability. And all you got to do to not get your ass kicked is work harder and be better than somebody else. So, I’m always afraid if I don’t work hard enough, I’m not going to achieve my goal. I don’t know, I’m just very determined that way to keep grinding and just trying to see what my best is and compete with some of the best guys in the world. I always have that dream of, you know, playing a super high roll or something against D Peters, or being at a final table against Alius Aroma Big and you know, some of those guys, and you know, I’m looking forward to those days, you know. I dream about it’s like, alright, all I got to do is get a little bit better today. And it’s a slow process. But that’s kind of where my head is, you know.

Brad: I don’t, I don’t have many doubts that you will get there. Grit. Perseverance. These are the indicators of a successful human. Always be gritty. Always be perseverance, positive self-talk, stop saying that you’re the worst, stop saying that you’re horrible. Stop saying that you suck. Ask instead, how you can get better. Build yourself up. It’s very easy to tear yourself down. And in the poker world especially, people do it all the time it becomes losing that negative self-talk.

Shaundle: There’s so much losing in the game. I mean, you’re going to get wrecked, you’re going to a have so much times of losing and no matter how much you study or work, I mean, you’re, you’re going to go on a downswing. Like, there’s nothing you can do about it, it’s just understanding that. Lose the less during those times and just keep working to get better and then your upswing so just be much greater, you know, and you lose less than your down swings, the better you get. So, I’m always trying to achieve, you know, getting those margins better, you know, losing less than my downswings in winning more my appointments. So yeah, that’s, that’s kind of where that emanates from. 

Brad: Awesome, man. That’s an awesome answer. I’m super, super glad for this conversation. I know that you know, I’ve learned a lot as a lot of a lot of value for me a lot of value for the for the audience. And final question. Where can the chasing poker greatness audience find you on the inter webs?

Shaundle: Yeah, if you guys want to find me, you can find me on Twitch. I stream four to five nights a week. Always playing a pretty big session on Sundays. I play mid and high stakes tournaments, like I’ll be playing a $450 tournament this, so this Sunday probably two came by it’s i’s not the biggest schedule compared to guys that are out there to plan 20k on Sunday, but we’ll get there and you know. I play five nights a week in twitch you can find me

Brad: What’s your, what’s the URL there and what time do you stream?

Shaundle: Yeah, the streams, I generally stream and start my streams at 8pm Eastern. 8pm Eastern Twitch, backslashcrazysixes spelled out. No sixes, crazy sixes.

Brad: No sixes, but

Shaundle: No, yeah, that’s just not the number six is yeah, so that sixes. Snd then you can find me on Twitter @shaundlepruitt. And then not very active on Instagram. I’m more active there on Twitter. And then my Twitch, I’m very active there. So, you can find me five nights a week on Twitch. And I’m going to stay consistent. This thing’s been going amazing. You know, I’m getting over 100 viewers, normally timeslot at night, which is great. You know, she’s going to get over 100 subs now on my channel, which is kind of a milestone for me. So yeah, man. Those are that’s you can find. Yeah,

Brad: It’s awesome man. I look forward to follow on your journey. Moving forward and doing this again in round two and a couple years talking about where you’ve gone since this talk today.

Shaundle: Yeah, man, I really appreciate you having me means a lot, man. And thank you guys, good luck, everybody out there listening. Remember, just stay persistent. And, you know, just keep doing your best to try to study and be you know, be patient as well. It’s you’re going to have tough days, but just keep trying to get better and you’ll find more successes than the guys who quit or give up. I think that’s what it’s about.

Brad: Well said. And alright.