Garrett Adelstein vs. Robbi Jade Lew Cheating Allegations on Insane Hustler Casino Live Poker Stream

Pokers legendary champions, next generation stars and desireless ambassadors the game, sharing their wisdom and guiding your journey to high achievement on the Green Belt. This is chasing poker greatness with your host, Brad Wilson

Brad Wilson (0:27) Welcome my friend to another episode of the chasing poker podcast. And today we have an emergency podcast which, you know, I supposed to be working on my next CPG course. But I woke up and the world had started burning down. I have JWin, welcome to the show, sir. How you doing?

JWin (0:51) Again, Brad? barely slept been up all night, catching up on this stuff, watching the several live streams and just eating it up. Just just you know, you get all up. I quit drinking for two days. But I had a pop up bottle one for this one.

Brad Wilson (1:07) Yeah, I was alerted last night when Coach Thomas in greatness village mentioned the hand and then mentioned the potential for cheating. And then I went to sleep and woke up and things had taken a turn overnight. So I guess let’s, you know, to get started with the show, I guess we first need to talk about what happened, what the allegations are, and then go through that.

JWin (1:36) Yep. So I mean, we have the hand and a background loaded up for those of you guys who haven’t seen a hand yet. But in short, the hand looks like a pretty standard hand. Garrett opens with suited connector, Robbi calls, looking to make a move, which is very consistent to her style of play. But it gets a little dicey where at one point Garrett jams all in with a very strong combo draw. And with a hand that just looks completely dead. It makes the call for I think it was like a four or 5x Jam something really, really huge. Yep. And then the internet just breaks. And of course the allegations that comes immediately after is that there must be cheating involved because how can anyone just their entire stack for what is a high card and it’s not even a high card

Brad Wilson (2:38) is a jack Hi, olan call and the turn that Robbi made. And so post this hand, you know, Garrett just kind of broke out just was in shock. And you could sit you could see his brain like working to try to put the puzzle pieces together. After that hand was at showdown he started inquiring about, you know why she made the call trying to get more information. And then her story was fairly inconsistent, and seem to kind of change as time went on. And so, yeah, let’s pull the hand up. I think that’s probably the next step. And then just go through the whole sequence of events, and really speak about what we can observe. And then at the end, I guess we can offer our own speculation right as to what we think about this specific situation. So this is the hand in question, if you want to want to zoom right through it. You got it. Gerritsen third blind

JWin (3:54) and for everyone’s unclear, it essentially just folds all the way to the blinds in which Garrett’s on the third line, and Rob is in the fourth. Yep. Anything

Brad Wilson (4:05) about this jack for off call that feels off to you, Jay.

JWin (4:10) No, not at all. I mean, this is super consistent. I’ve been watching a few of these screens, especially the highlight hands. I mean, in many of the highlight hands that you see from Robbi, she plays these these hands. And yep, and Robbi. She appears I’ve played a lot of poker over the last decade. But she’s not a pro by any means. Her successes in business. She’s done other cool things and she later admits and I guess this is going to go against her a little bit but she does admit to staking and by whom she was partially staked in his game was going to be a hot topic. But no, this is completely normal for her. So hot so stream ramming, it’s not just Robbi, it’s a lot of people playing these disconnected offsuit cards. Yeah, and

Brad Wilson (4:59) I think a lot Lots of people who are staked for these streams in general as well right now, I think that it’s totally not necessary for her to divulge if she’s getting backed or staked. I think that’s private information that the public viewers just don’t have a right to.

JWin (5:22) Which she was pretty quick to offer the information. It’s not like she tried to withhold it anything.

Brad Wilson (5:27) Right. I just know how this community goes after people is like, where who’s backing you like who’s taking you? What are the incentives here? Let’s find the conspiracy behind the scenes. Pretty much. That’s that’s that would be the MO. But yeah, I agree jack for off. Nothing. Nothing out of the ordinary here. Garrett, see buts the flop. And I think you see about small, right. And she just decides to call, which again,

JWin (5:55) very consistent she she floats in a lot of these situations. And I know we got a couple of other hands to look at. Definitely talk about and, again, nothing weird.

Brad Wilson (6:04) No, I think it’s totally rational as well. So I saw that people were going nuts

JWin (6:09) when she raised it here, including Garrett. I mean, Garrett brings this up, like, why would you raise the turn? But I don’t know, Brad. I mean, what do you think about the turn race?

Brad Wilson (6:18) I think that this is pretty consistent with what I write about, about amateur and recreational players. 

JWin (6:25) Yeah, this is blind versus blind. And you have a pair. I mean, it’s connected pair board. But I mean, Garrett has so much air here.

Brad Wilson (6:34) Yeah, these boards tend to be pretty overblown, soft, and also the array size is very consistent. I mean, the the men raise is the most common size to expect from Robbi here. So again, I don’t really see anything out of line. It’s just some wacky thing that’s happening.

JWin (6:50) I was adding a note to the hand very prior to this one. She had jak three. She she had mentioned, she was confused. And she thought she had jak three, which was the exact hand she had before. Now, she does check her hands a lot. And I think we’ll see that and a little bit. Sure. But it was clear that afterwards, she was confused. She was like, I mean, there was a high pressure situation, so I don’t blame her. 

Brad Wilson (7:15) But um, well, you’re playing for you know, what is eventually going to be close to $300,000 pot, right. So any, any sort of amateur wreck is going to feel a lot of pressure, even pros will feel a lot of pressure playing a $300,000 pot. So yeah, I guess Garrett is now assessing the situation and will eventually stick it in right now. All right.

JWin (7:41) So Gareth, James it all in and this is where the internet breaks, I think at this. Point 99.8% of the people will just fold their jacket.

Brad Wilson (7:53) Yeah, not well, let’s call it 99.99999% of people, right.

JWin (8:02) We’ll play though.

Brad Wilson (8:06) We don’t need to say anything. Yeah, it’s interesting. Actually, if you pause it for a second. I think thus far, everything is pretty much in line with her thinking she has a three. She even verbalized three any good here before she called. 

JWin (8:27) Yeah, count apart. The counter argument is when people said, Well, what about when Garrett asked, unless you have, you know, a small pair here or something like that, right? Let’s you have fives here. And she goes, Oh, do you give me that much credit or small pair like fives and you go and she goes, do you give me that much credit? Now with that being said, I actually think in her mind, she interpreted that as like fours, five, six sevens, eights, as opposed to like Jack debris.

Brad Wilson (8:56) Sure, which one or 456 sevens and eights would be a better hand then her jack three, right? So that that would still be consistent in you know, you give me that much credit. So she’s saying that she has a worse hand than fours five sixes and sevens, right is how I would interpret it personally.

JWin (9:16) i Alright, I’m gonna stir the pot now. And I guess I’ll share my views a little bit later. But I didn’t notice this. But like, I’m always in terms of like body language. And anytime you kind of like scratch your face a little bit, says something and I don’t know exactly what it says here. I just noticed that now. I don’t know what that says. It could just be like, I’m a badass. Yeah, I don’t know my nose. When people scratch their face.

Brad Wilson (9:42) Yeah. So this is the hand right? This is the hand in question that sort of starts an avalanche. So now, really, I think all that can happen is just look at the data points. as objectively as possible, and see what’s happening. So, you know, you’ve kept track of all the comments, you listen to Joey Ingram’s emergency podcast, I assume you’re maybe watch Doug pokes or the solve for y. So those those just came out a few hours ago, so maybe not. Tell me about the spiciness in joy Ingram’s emergency podcast last night? Let’s catch both me and the viewer or listener

JWin (10:31) up? Yeah, sure. So you get a variety of opinions and people chiming in. And right away, Nick calls in. Nicholas he calls in and he says there’s nothing from first glance, there was nothing that he saw that was, you know, incriminating. He thought that that’s just how Robbi plays, like Robbi is. And you see, like, other tweets about people literally saying, Oh, they play heads up within the past year, or they were in a final table with her or whatever they I mean, these are people who are not, you know, poker famous, like, Garrett. These are just people that have played in her and whatever big situation. And they’re like, that’s how she plays. She’s like, really, she finds these crazy call downs. And you know, mostly wrong. But this is what she does. She calls it like Jack Hi, like, just what it does. And it’s several people on Twitter that’s already mentioned that. So number two, she says, This is how she plays. He mentioned that they took up their phones, it shouldn’t be any electronic devices on on the poker players bodies, that he fully trusts his game security, that he doesn’t think there’s any violations of this, where he kind of has to say

Brad Wilson (11:51) this, right? Like this. Isn’t that late? Yeah, he’s definitely someone who’s invested has a vested interest in the security of hustler casino live, or I would say, if she like, really, a lot of it hinges on whether she knew she had Jack high or not in my mind. And I think that for her to cheetahs say Well, yeah, she does how she plays she just calls with Jack Hi, that that to me is not Ultra reasonable. Yep. Just because of the nature of this exact situation, right. Like this is like Let’s put aside just the the speculation, the thoughts, the cheating and all of this and just look at it from like a poker sense. This is this is not a call in any universe, right? Like with Jack high did like if we’re trying to justify that like calling jack high is reasonable. I think that that part of it is completely unreasonable. And you know, that that just if people are saying that she knew she had Jack high then then I think there’s way more likely some shenanigans going on. Yeah. Because that’s just crazy. Like, that’s just it just doesn’t make sense. Ever, you know? Because

JWin (13:13) she mentioned some common points like she doesn’t think a nine play. I mean, she she made some really good points.

Brad Wilson (13:19) The problem is like Derrick could have queen jack or King Jack or king queen, right? And his bluff just beater. Like his high cards are just better than Jack high. Or you could have the queen high flush draw the

JWin (13:29) ace. This is a meme line coming up. But I’ve got a blocker, Brad? Yeah, you got

Brad Wilson (13:34) a blocker. I don’t necessarily know that you want to blocker. But

JWin (13:41) this is our explanation. She says she had as a blocker.

Brad Wilson (13:43) Yeah, I did hear that. This is not a card that you want to have in this situation, by the way, much rather, the jack of clubs still be out there in the wilderness and not in your hand. So yeah, I mean, basically the there’s two possibilities, right? Like, there’s the one that in some way, the game is rigged. And she has, you know, omnipotent knowledge of everybody’s whole cards and just knows that jack high is going to be the best hand. And so calls all in on the turn. And then the other would be that she misread her hand and called all in with Jack Hi, thinking that she had Jack three. Right, those those are really the only two possibilities that I can I can see. Do you disagree with that? Is there any other possibility? Um

JWin (14:37) No, I mean, I think those are the two camps that people are debating over. There’s other you know, versions and other conspiracies. You mentioned the the security any potential security hacks RFID hacks somebody in a production team, signaling something to her. There was some spice on joey show where somebody saw like some sort of device on it, there was a couple of things people mentioned. He said there was a clip where the chair was rocking, like, like, kind of like imagine my chair doing this. Like, I mean, I’m kind of exaggerating, but you know, imagine my chair was rocking. And of course, some people are like, well, she’s just rocking her legs, but she’s not on her legs, her legs are pretty still. But the chairs like vibrating a little bit, I don’t know how many possibilities there are for a chair vibrating to vibrate. The other thing that people were speculating was, it was some weird rectangular device. Like imagine one of those old Nokia phones back from like, the early 2000s. It was something like that on her when the shouldn’t be. And it’s not the

Brad Wilson (15:42) good, it’d be a sunglass case, could it be makeup? Some sort of makeup bag or something like that?

JWin (15:50) Yeah, and, you know, Nipa to she was like, I’m not gonna pat her down. Like, that’s just not what we do here. Which is reasonable. So, I don’t know, if the question was asked to Robbi, I might have missed it. But,

Brad Wilson (16:02) um, it’s a lot of speculation. You know, it’s, it feels like that that whole side of it looks like confirmation bias is like, there’s an opinion. And we’re just looking to confirm set opinion through any means necessary, right? Because that, that we’ll never know what that was.

JWin (16:22) Yeah, it’s just like, I think the logic that people are applying to this case is kind of unfair. They’re saying, there must have been cheating. So therefore, let me find any piece of the puzzle that fits my, the point I’m trying to make and make it just make a true which is really unfair.

Brad Wilson (16:40) Yeah. Well, you’ve come you’ve come to a conclusion. This is how, you know conspiracy theorists operate worldwide, right? You’ve come to a conclusion. Now, let’s find evidence that fits that conclusion, though.

JWin (16:51) Like, what if it was Phil Ivey who made that call?

Brad Wilson (16:57) Then everybody would assume that he misread his hand

JWin (17:00) or I mean, but there will certainly give him a little bit maybe he’s more likely to get the genius is like, oh my god, Phil Ivey just put some exactly on and seven, eight clubs. I mean,

Brad Wilson (17:11) there’s nobody that can make..

JWin (17:12) some dough on called two pots with nine high one huge one down on I was like 10% of villain stock and I think a single raised pot. So this but again, Tom Dwan had like two hands on YouTube, where you call one nine Hye won a lot of money. You know what I mean?

Brad Wilson (17:29) And I think, like, there are situations where calling with nine high makes a lot of sense. This one is not really one of them. Right. And, yeah, I mean, I have no idea what would happen if it were Phil Ivey that did this, my assumption would be that he misread his hand.

JWin (17:49) Like we’d be praising him. I would live there.

Brad Wilson (17:51) You just can’t pray. You know, that would that would be just so biased, right of like,

JWin (17:59) I think I think we go this is the greatest fan of all time, like Michael Jordan’s flu game.

Brad Wilson (18:06) Called 100. Gay is getting like 1.5 to one

JWin (18:10) great the goat Phil Ivey called down girl Jack. Hi, I can see now if

Brad Wilson (18:15) he’s if he’s right, he’s got 46% equity. So if he’s wrong, he’s got zero and if he’s right,

JWin (18:23) but he’s the greatest ever do it? Yeah, he was bright. And that’s all that matters.

Brad Wilson (18:28) To me. There are a lot of clips of Phil Ivey mistreating hands. Yeah, because he’s played so many hands on stream, right. So people have just done it like so it’s not like, it’s not a thing that’s inconceivable that would happen. I have no idea though. If if that were the case,

JWin (18:43) and that’s totally fair to him. And by the way, like, I think is very less likely that she just called down thinking she had Jack Hi, I really do think she had Jack three. But even if she did call down with Jack high, it’s also very conceivable that she was too prideful and didn’t want to admit that she made a bad call. Like as you you know, if we kept the tape going, Garrett grills are pretty hard. Like at this point he you could tell his face and I mean, the reaction doesn’t get any better from his face. But he feels like something is wrong. And then apparently on the show, we found out a little bit more via his tweets, as well as her side of the story that was discussed in a back room between those three, you want

Brad Wilson (19:28) to read those tweets?

JWin (19:30) Yeah, let’s take a look at that because I just started picking up Twitter a month ago and I gotta say it’s the I can’t believe this stuff is free.

Brad Wilson (19:41) This is, you know, this is better than better than Apple TV. Probably Twitter.

JWin (19:47) Yeah, and I guess some finger exercise out of a two,

Brad Wilson (19:49) huh? I likely have more to say about what happened on today’s stream later on. But a few thoughts poker is an extremely complicated, nuanced game. I don’t fault anyone who watched the hand and doesn’t have truly understand how it’s impossible to call on the turn there but I will give a very brief explanation an explanation Robbi fully understands if you watch her 11 hours of prior footage jack for off on 29 threes very little equity versus the overwhelming majority of my semi bluffing hands let alone all the maiden hands which have her dead ambitious three bet semi bluff all enhance for me like ace of clubs, x of clubs or even a hand as weak as queen jack have Jack for off drawing nearly dead. Comparing the situation to a wild Jack a river called caught on spot where say the board is ace, king queen Deuce tray have absolutely nothing in common with the situation. Furthermore, I’ve played and reviewed the stream from two other prior sessions with this player not only did she never consider making a call anywhere close to this before, but she instead very often folded bluff catchers to riverbeds, only calling when her hand was quite strong. And now all of a sudden she’s playing a 10x stacks stack size compared to before and

JWin (20:54) is calling a huge overshare with no prior no draw, but no hair no draw. No pair

Brad Wilson (20:58) no draw. I’m well aware of the scariest easiest way for someone to livestream is to have a device ID and it simply vibrates indicate you have the best hand. I’m sure the plan was to generate the turn and when they hand on the river when I don’t improve but that’ll change when I read or for extremely weak on the turn and made an unorthodox play by raising Olin. At that point she would know she still has the best hand if she had such a hidden device and her lack of more in depth poker knowledge made it so she didn’t understand that calling there would always be a dead giveaway. She was cheating greed and a 270 K pot when she calls correctly it may have also played a role in the moment. Another common way of cheating. Next tweet. Another common way of cheating as someone has the technology to know who will have the best hand is showdown by hacking into the card reader. In the end there’s obviously no way at the moment to know exactly how I was cheated and it will be extremely difficult to ever get to the bottom of it. Those that think cheating is impossible despite H c l security precautions are misguided. The only thing I am certain of is there a zero chance hustler casino live ownerships involved. They are my friends, I trust them completely. And they would never be part of this. I would never play on any stream at all. If I thought there was even a very small chance ownership slash production was involved in me being cheated simply wouldn’t be worth my time or anxiety. After the hand her body language and word salad explanations on why she called the turn on camera are also extremely suspicious. After giving a couple jabs about how she outplayed me She immediately becomes very defensive with nervous chatter. Putting it all together, I immediately felt very concerned about foul play. And tweet number four of six after having conversation with co owner Ryan Feldman, he amicably agreed that three, three of me Ryan and her should have a conversation most of that off camera conversation, it’s more of her going on and on trying to justify the play in a way that came across very incriminating. Ryan then tried to explain to her that it wasn’t us she needed to convince as this was about to go viral. I then said Robbi, this is likely to be viewed by millions of people. Her face clearly melted once I said this fully realizing for the first time what she had gotten herself into. And then I continued, I think, you know, Now you fucked up. At this point. We’re all about to start walking back toward the stage. So I didn’t know what else to do at that point when she says to me, do you want me to pay you back what you lost in the hand. Knowing a this was likely the closest I would get to confession and be how impossible it is to get refunded in these cheating scandals possible being the best example. I took her up on that offer. Ryan either encouraged or discouraged her from doing this. To be clear, I never asked for a refund. I never even considered asking as it would be such an obvious admission of guilt on her end. But once she offered Of course, I’m going to accept my money back after being clearly cheated. Another note she didn’t misread her hand she knew she had Jack for she looks back at her hand for several seconds straight for calling. This is in direct conflict with her saying in her interview, I didn’t look back at my hand to see that it was Jack four. And again reviewing her prior 11 hours of footage. Even her calling with a three would be incredibly suspicious. In fact, her line on every street was extremely out of character compared to prior hands. After getting the money I lost in the hand back. Her friend in the game suspiciously loses his mind at me after being nothing but incredibly cordial in our prior interactions. After several threats from him, I decided to walk away from the situation. Knowing I have zero interest in continuing to play today I decided to head home. I’ve been in the public eye for nearly the entirety of my 20 years in poker, my reputation and reputation in the community. It is what it is for good reason. If I thought there was any chance I wasn’t being cheated. I would not have accepted the refund any chance whatsoever that she chose to repay me the 130 5k for any reason other than an admission of guilt. I would never ever accept the refund.

JWin (24:47) All right, so a lot of heat that those are the six tweets. Should we go back to the first tweet and then I’ll kind of fill in like new information that’s been sure sure. Go forth of this.

Brad Wilson (24:59) Yeah. Okay. So,

JWin (25:02) in his second paragraph when he talks about how dead she is, and first off the weight, Garrett thinks about his hand. And this is just, you know, me being devil’s advocate. Although I might as well just come out and say, I don’t think she cheated. And I’ll try to present some of the examples that to me makes sense. First off, I’ve made this mistake before. And I think a lot of us make this mistake all the time. We think that the way we analyze the hand is the way that someone else analyze the hand when they can just have the wrong train of thought from the very beginning. Like, you know, the way she goes, Oh, I had a jack blocker. I don’t think she meant to say she had a jack blocker. Oh, actually, she does say this part. She says, I have the jack clubs. So I have some backdoors. That’s the reason why she called the flop. And then on the turn, she knows that she’s she’s just like trying to fit. I mean, this is what this population, this population of these types of players, this is what they do. Right. Brad, you mentioned earlier, like, this population likes to mid click, because there’s so much air there. They’re just hoping for a fold. Yeah, they don’t they make a move on the river, which I think she’s capable of making.

Brad Wilson (26:13) Sure. And I think like her calling the preflop raise when his blind versus blind is, you know, not unreasonable. Yeah. are calling the flop. Very small see bet is also not unreasonable and not not unexpected? Yep. I think there’s another thing in here that actually is quite important. I don’t remember which one it was. But it was the one where he said he made an unorthodox play and jammed. Because he had a read. I think it was one of the first three tweets in there.

JWin (26:45) So this is number two. Number three,

Brad Wilson (26:49) yeah, there it is. It was it was in the middle there on that last Oh, yeah. So I read her for extremely weak on the turn and made an unorthodox play by racing all in. At that point, she would know, she still has the best hand if she had such a hidden device. So one thing about that statement, that and by the way, all of this is just quite dangerous, right? Like the accusation, this, this whole this whole this tweet storm, it’s going to be especially difficult for both parties moving forward after this. If, like, the way that physical tells work, is that you’re not reading what the person has exactly. You’re reading their confidence level in the hand that they have, right? So to say I read her for extremely weak. Well, if she knew that she was going to win the hand at showdown, and she had the best hand, would she feel extremely weak? Right? And she would be pretty confident about the situation because she would just know, oh, I have the best hand, right? If you look back at like posle, in a lot of situations, like he’s very confident in all the spots, right? Like, it’s easy to be confident when you know the outcome of the situation. So I think that actually kind of contradicts itself that I read her for extremely weak, so I jammed and she called knowing that she had the best hand, those those two things are really hard to coexist. Yeah.

JWin (28:23) That’s actually a pretty good insight. And of course, it doesn’t rule out the possibility of cheating altogether. But it limits the type of cheating involved. Like she doesn’t have a device that tells her every single information on every single screen, and potentially in real time, because then his comment would be very, very contradictory.

Brad Wilson (28:42) Yeah, I’ve so we talked about this a little beforehand, I’ve actually been cheated in the way that Garrett said that someone hacked an RFID reader and the players knew who is going to win the hand at showdown. And it happened at a home game. Like a decade or so ago, fairly traumatic event. They ended up whacking me for like 55k. And I can say that, when it happened to me in that situation. I actually had no idea until the next day, until I like started putting pieces together and really thinking about it did I even think there was a possibility of cheating. As a matter of fact, those guys had a game in Alabama and they invited me to come and I signed up, I was ready to go. I was like, ready to drive for hours to Alabama to play with them some more. Because from my perspective, it was like, Oh, I’m playing with, you know, incredibly high stakes with five of the worst players in the south east. Like, let’s go I’m going to have a plus six figure night right. And what happened when somebody knows that they’re going to win is that we played for about four or five hours straight. I was winning 30k ended up losing 55 I never won a hand at showdown. My hands never went to showdown. Like it He just whenever I didn’t have it, he raised me. And like, so there was no evidence for me to get suspicious until after I replayed it in my head where one player at the game who was pretty nitty would it struggled for a quarter, in the beginning made the comment, like, I’m not putting a quarter of my own money in the pot without knowing what my hand is. At about three in the morning, he moved to the one seat and he’s okay straddling to like 500. Which, you know, there’s a lot of these like red flags that I didn’t think of at 5am that I thought of the next day. And then somebody else that last a decent amount of prominent in the poker world actually came on the podcast, and we talked about it privately. And he’s like, oh, you know, they were cheating, right? And then that was when he told me the exact method that they were using, because I still didn’t know I suspected I was 90% sure that I got cheated. I hate blaming any kind of loss on cheating, like I hate and like, pushing off responsibility for this this terrible night on to something else other than myself. But yeah, it was it was pretty wild getting something confirmed to me that I had suspected for close to 10 years. This only happened in the last six months, by the way. But for all of that,

JWin (31:21) to say that the cheating happened six months ago,

Brad Wilson (31:24) know the count confirmation, the cheating or even in like 2014 or say, yeah, just took a while for me to circle back. And so that is to say that, like when these sorts of things happen, it’s actually quite difficult for the players in question to know, because it’s so hard if the hands don’t go to showdown, right? And that’s really, you know, I think if one were to be a proper cheater, that’s how that’s how you would cheat you would not raise the turn and then call in with Jack. Hi. When

JWin (32:00) you call, you call the turn and then raise the river.

Brad Wilson (32:04) Yeah, right. You just call it a turn and raise the river. Right. So that’s another like, kind of piece of this, this puzzle in this situation. There another few hands that happened in the stream that I would like to run through?

JWin (32:19) Can we can we emphasize that again? Because I feel like if people don’t know, maybe multitasking, yeah, they probably won’t understand what we just said there.

Brad Wilson (32:26) Sure. So

JWin (32:29) when Robbi raised the turn, she’s trying to take down the pot and sure let’s say there is a possibility for cheating. That possibility is alive. But if she knew like would she cheat against a hand as strong as Garretts still call

Brad Wilson (32:52) gears argument would be that you know, she’s just getting a buzz that tells her she’s got the best hand in her hand is going to win a showdown Right? Um, but even if that’s the case, and you know your hands gonna win it showdown. Then you just call the turn and then you know make a hero call with Jack Jack high on the river when the board double pairs against you know bus or

JWin (33:15) rave which would be for jam which will be even jam now. He just has eight high and he just auto mocks

Brad Wilson (33:21) and everybody’s like Wow, she’s so soon. What a play. What are we well done right? I mean, they look

JWin (33:27) for the patterns resistance. Why don’t you just find a better hand?

Brad Wilson (33:34) You likely think like a decent bluff catcher where villains polarized and you just call three bets and you just win and everything looks normal.

JWin (33:44) There was another hand late much later in the stream where she flop top set against. I’m not gonna say his name right we’re Sookie Ryuki I apologize for not memorizing how to say his name. But he flops top two I think he flops bottom two and I think he goes for check raise line but whatever the case is the money is starting to pile in. And she has top set which is which is aesthetic queens. She really doesn’t have a lot to worry about the pot is a queen jack to and I don’t know if the flush draw came in and told it the turn. But whatever the case is, like that would be a perfect example of if she had the ability to cheat chutes milk that Hanford everything is worth because now she has a value hand and she let’s just say quote unquote, no, she’s going to win a showdown. Like why in this example, she raised the thing like 10x and you know he tanks and then he finally just says okay, I find I don’t beat anything you win. It sounds to me like that’s the path of least resistance like that’s the way you know not.

Brad Wilson (34:50) There are two other hands where one Garrett has a boat and she has a jack high flush draw and you have it loaded up here. Yeah, yeah, so yeah, get it to river. Oh, you’re way off now I think no, no several hours in Oh J navigating you to stuff

JWin (35:23) we’re looking for the

Brad Wilson (35:27) Jazz was late. Right? Yeah. I mean, you can just go to the turn actually got Oh, she calls a flop after Garrett flops trips. And I’ll posit the like she’s got a flush draw here. And Garrett has a boat. So she’s drawing stone dead. Right and Garrett bets 10k. I mean, is she just torching 10k here knowing she’s going to lose on the river to set up calling a bet three bet rip later on with Jack Hi.

JWin (36:03) Yeah, like this is consistent. She’s saying hey, oh, by the way, how similar is the board texture? It’s a it’s a pair board. very connected.

Brad Wilson (36:14) Plus draw available. Plus draw available.

JWin (36:16) She has Jack Hi.

Brad Wilson (36:21) It’s basically the same hand as before.

JWin (36:24) But it’s all on me if an ace of diamonds pop up. She doesn’t go broke here.

Brad Wilson (36:27) I mean, there’s no way to know right? Yeah, like, however, she even mentioned something on the river about like, she throws the time chip in and mentions that she’s like close to calling the river here. But mostly it’s speech

JWin (36:40) play speech play, very consistent. Same, same thing. 

Brad Wilson (36:43) And you can just go to the, you know, show Garrett’s bet on the turn of 10k. She ends up calling you can see the chips in front of her. And spoiler alert, she doesn’t win this pot. Because she’s drawing down on the turret. Garrett bets big on the river. She gives a speech and folds. And then there’s another hand with Eric person where she flops. She has jacks and flops top set.

JWin (37:12) Is this the one? Oh, this one is queen is the queen versus laptops. Queens versus Jack deuce. Yes, Queens, the RFID reader didn’t read until the turn or something like

Brad Wilson (37:23) that later on. Yeah, yeah. What about to like, you know, this is sort of another data point that Garrett’s the only one that quit. Like, the game didn’t break. So Garrett is the only one that left and Phil Ivey keeps playing.

JWin (37:44) He had mentioned that she said so many things. And it’s worth noting, too, by the way, like, I wasn’t just listening to what she said, as much as I was listening to how she said it. And when she talks about poker theories topics, she jumbles her words. But it doesn’t mean she’s lying. It just means that she’s talking about something that she’s not an expert in, which a lot of us that’s how we talk, like when we try to make up logic in a field that we’re not great at, we just start sounding crazy. Has

Brad Wilson (38:13) anybody ever heard a weak player playing live describe what they were thinking in a pot? I mean, it just got

JWin (38:20)  

a blocker. It’s my favorite one.

Brad Wilson (38:22)  

I’ll never get over that. It just goes all over the place. You know, it just goes from like one place to another as to like, I’m explaining why they did what they did. And it almost never makes any rational sense. When she called

JWin (38:34)  

into Joey Ingram show the way she went right at the people that were just criticizing her. Yeah, for sure. It was angry. It was defensive. But it was in a like, fuck you. I play the game the right way. And you guys are just mad that I fucking won against Garrett who everyone loves. And I love that tape from her because, I mean, that was really convincing to me like she did not. She was not scared of the fire. Like she wanted to be in there. She wanted to justify what happened. She admitted that she wasn’t great. But, you know, she was like, Look, I played the guy. And she even mentioned it. I was frustrated. He keeps bluffing me right. And this was the counterpart, the counterpoint to one of his tweets that was like, she consistently folded. This is a great counterpoint because again, she’s not she’s studying his tweets, right at whatever two in the morning. He’s saying that oh, she consistently folds her bluff captures against me my riverbeds. Sure, but then her point on the call was like, Look, I was tired of him. Like fucking play me. So I made the call.

Brad Wilson (39:36) At some point you snap right? I mean, yeah, this this is again, this is a thing that happens in poker where somebody feels like they’re getting bullied. And eventually they black they go off like a rocket. This rocket just happens to be a little bit more spectacular than most rockets. And yeah, I think it this is As character assassination, right, I mean, let’s be real here. Whenever she plays on any live stream again, this is going to be talked about in the chat, the announcers, will she get invited to any more live streams to play? I don’t know the answer to that. I mean, so making such an accusation, very publicly has consequences. Right? And what if you’re not right? I mean, that’s another that’s a consequence. Right. And I think, you know, I guess one thing that I that needs to be talked about is she gave the money back, right. And a lot of people are using that as an admission of guilt, including Garrett here, and what do you make of that? What sense do you make of her giving the money back?

JWin (40:48) Um, I was trying to be fancy and use my, my highlighter mouse, but it won’t work with them. Okay. Garrett’s version of this story, is, he said, to be clear, somewhere. To be clear, I never asked for a refund. And her version of the story was, what can I do to make this right? And her quote from him was, well, you could start with giving me my money back. Very opposite things. And she goes, Okay, what do you want to do? Do you want to just chop the pot? To which she says, No, I want the whole thing. And this is more just for dramatic effect. But she says, I don’t know how she does this. But she somehow gives them 125k 130k. And then he goes, No, I want the last 5k. Like, he wanted the whole, the whole shebang. And she was like, okay, whatever, I’ll just gave you another 5k Chip. But um, so that was how that part of the story went. Brad, your question was, should we talk about like her? Like, what do we want the money

Brad Wilson (42:01) back? Right? Like, what does this mean? Is it an admission of guilt?

JWin (42:04) The initial floodways is old, that is guilt? Why else would she give the money back. But it’s not necessarily admission of guilt. And one can see it the opposite way. She She doesn’t play high stakes for a living, she mentioned it, we should definitely get into this part. But she mentioned that she gets take in a lot of high stakes games. But it was very clear to her and this is what she explained in the Joe Ingram show that she didn’t want drama, especially with someone as beloved and respected as Garrett. She wants to play on the strings, and that she wants to get good at poker and have an, a place for her to play and a space for her to be good at. Right. Like all credible things so far. And she’s just like, he’s not the guy that I need to have drama with. And besides, I’m drama free is what she says, I’m drama free. I don’t want to get into beef with someone like Garrett. If I can give him 100k back and this whole thing goes away and he gets happy. Which she says, hey, if I give you your money back, can we can we do a handshake deal? If I give you the money back? Can you just come in and play with us? And he goes, Okay, I’ll come into play. So they shook on it. Apparently, he gave her the money back in full with the extra 5k Chip.

Brad Wilson (43:22) She gave money back. She gave him the money back. Yeah, yes.

JWin (43:26) She gave him the full money back. And then he did walk in. And then there was some other drama, and we could talk about that shortly. But in my opinion, it’s not necessarily an admission of guilt. To me, it’s very feasible that she just didn’t want the drama. Right? She doesn’t seem like a dramatic person. I mean, this is just me going off the deep end, I started going in towards a socials very positive vibe girl. Like, it wasn’t like, every other post was just her, you know, finding drama. Sure, I didn’t, I didn’t even get the sense that she cared about clout. You know what I mean? Or that she was money hungry anyway, or that her photos were it was like her photos were normal photos with her girlfriends or whatever. I didn’t read the captions or anything like that. But it was just like a quick peruse. I’m like, okay, like, she seems like a very positive person and a low vibe drama less person. So everything fits the bill to me. And besides. And I’m not trying to compare it to 100k. But I think I’ve seen examples where people give money back like, I know, I’m probably on the way nicer side. But I’ve given money back because people said they misread their hand. And I’m like, okay, cool. I’ll give you half of your riverbed back. Like I’ve done that before. I’ve given money back when someone tried to put out like three chips, but they put out the wrong color. Like I’m never going to take the money back. And I know I’m probably a little bit too nice there. But I’ve also made those errors and if someone offered me my money back, and it was a very friendly change. I just be like, okay, cool. Like, I’m sorry about that. I won’t make that mistake again. Yeah, so you know, and I’m not trying to compare I’d like to say a couple $1,000 200k. But she also makes a good point. She was like, you guys, I know we’re talking about 100k number, but you guys realize like every other pot is like 100k in this game? Sure. She was just making a really good point, like, Yeah, I know the 100k sounds like a really big number, I’m not trying to undermine how much money that is. But if I didn’t lose to Garrett, now, I was probably going to lose the carrot later. So to mean giving the money back for him not to be upset at me. And for me to still be able to play poker here. Again, her whole explanation just, it sounds very reasonable to me.

Brad Wilson (45:37) And so to me, there’s, it’s not an apples to apples comparison. But there’s a pretty famous hand that Kevin Hart played a few years back on a stream, where he won a pot he got all in after mistreating his hand. And his initial reaction was he wanted to give the money back. Like that was just the initial reaction, right? Granted, you know, he recognized that he misread his hand instantly, and actually felt real bad about winning the pot despite mistreating his hand and then wanting to give the money back. So I mean, that to me is not and not an admission of guilt. It’s also a very intense situation. The all the he said she said stuff in the private conversation, there’s no way to know how that really went down. So, you know, I’m just going to discount that. But I would say her giving the money back is not necessarily indicative that she’s guilty. I mean, maybe 100k Just doesn’t mean a ton to her. And she just wants this situation to kind of blow over and not create a giant Firestorm. I mean, even Garrett saying like, millions of people are going to see that that’s terrifying, right? Because somebody who’s the most, one of the most respected poker players, Live Poker Players on the planet, has publicly accused you of cheating. Yeah, you know, his reputation is Sterling. And millions of people are going to see it and you’re going to look like a villain instantly like that. That, to me is a very scary proposition. And it’s not hard to see that. Oh, god, he’s right. Like, I just, I want this to go away. I don’t want this this Firestorm.

JWin (47:21) I mean, we didn’t really zoom in on his face, but he grilled her at the table. I mean, he did. First he looked at her for, you know, Body Body reads that kind of thing. Like, and I think like, it took him a few seconds. But But then once you realize like, Alright, I’m pretty sure like, there’s this just this is not a normal hand. She started, you know, just prying her and she felt the heat right away. She tried to like, I don’t think there’s a lot of frustration.

Brad Wilson (47:47) Yeah, no, you’re absolutely right. And he did. I think I think all of his actions are understandable, given the situation.

JWin (47:54) But she mentioned that. I mean, my point was she, he puts so much heat on her at the table. And she was like, imagine what the back room was like, when she you know, he said here, right? He said, You know, he mentioned a comment of like he mentioned, oh, you got You done fucked up, and her face melted. And she didn’t disagree with that. She was just more saying like, imagine how he was talking to me in the back. You don’t think I was like, intimidated FM.

Brad Wilson (48:23) face melting typically doesn’t occur in a minimal conversations between two humans.

JWin (48:28) Yeah. Yeah. So that’s pretty big. Let’s go to the next point, too. He says, after getting the money, I lost my hand back. Her friend in the games especially loses his mind at me, her friend. I don’t know what his poker name was better. His name is rip. Yep. The gentleman with a cowboy hat. He had played a couple of times in high stakes games. And his background, I think was I think they’re both in biotech together, I believe. And he’s very good at what he does, apparently. Right. And so he has money like that.

Brad Wilson (49:01) Clearly, he’s playing for hundreds of 1000s of dollars. Most people who do

JWin (49:05) he has action on her. That brings up a really, really big potential because now he has incentive to cheat with her. But, you know, she was just more saying like, he doesn’t need to cheat, like the guy has, buddy, you know, and,

Brad Wilson (49:19) well, he doesn’t need to risk his professional reputation cheating, laying claim, high stakes company.

JWin (49:25) You know, it sounds like, you know, as we all know, if biotech works out that’s like a really big endeavor. It’s not really big financial payoff.

Brad Wilson (49:35) Yeah. It’s not even like, yeah, there’s incentive for him to get mad if he has a piece of a right and said piece, who knows 50k 20k 30k for whatever the amount is, but there’s also the side that they’re friends and your friend is getting attacked. And generally when a friend is getting attacked, especially a female friend. You know, yeah, men men teen tend to bow up, they they tend to get upset.

JWin (50:09) I love that you said that because one of the things that he said at the table apparently was, I don’t know why Gary gets to talk to her like that I will never let another man talk to my wife like that.

Brad Wilson (50:20) Yeah. And that, that that’s accurate, right like that. That’s true. And that that certainly explains him going after Garrett. I mean, not, it doesn’t have to be about the money, it could be that yo, my friends getting mistreated. And she just won this pot. And now she gave the money back. And these these other human beings are, you know, in effect harassing her? So yeah, I’m not, you’re not gonna have a friendly space at the poker table.

JWin (50:49) So anyway, so that’s the explanation of that. And, you know, just speaks to the camera really brief brief about is like, she won the hand fair and square, like, why does she need to give the money back? I was just defending my friend. 

Brad Wilson (51:03) Yeah. Which would be the the legitimate reaction, in my opinion. If you have no idea, it’s like, oh, she was like, what? Why are we talking about this? She won the pot. So it doesn’t matter. Right. Like if you’re cheating, you know, Apostle said, kind of famously, at this point, like I gave people money back, you know, in I think it was in the mattes I’ll interview is I when people lost you know, some of them that gave given the money back like I’m, I’m a good guy. And I saw in his info incoherent state said, Well, isn’t that something that a cheater would do? Because you know, the money’s coming back. Right? Like, if you’re in this spot, like, Yeah, I’ll give people give it back for some goodwill knowing that you just, you’re cheating everybody all the time. So yeah, I mean, and that’s really Yeah, I guess I don’t know that there’s a ton else left for me to say I think at the end of the day, to me, all comes razor you misread her hand. And that’s, that’s the most logical and obvious conclusion. Do you have any thoughts on Do you have any thoughts on what’s next in the saga?

JWin (52:15) I hope that in a week’s time, nobody cares about this anymore because

Brad Wilson (52:21) I will that’s not going to happen. You can hope for that all day long. Because

JWin (52:25) Robbi seems fun for the game. She’s nice. She mentioned that, you know, four or five of the guys have table explosively tilt told her like we you cannot let g man keep the money. Like, she’s just like, look, even me for guys at the table even told me that I can’t let Gman take the money. And so she seems good for the table. She seems really nice and positive and upbeat. And again, if there’s proof that she’s cheating, then, you know, all of my thoughts, obviously wrong. But if there isn’t real incriminating evidence, then she appears to be good for the table. And I hope that people don’t keep, you know, punishing her for something that she didn’t do. On the other hand, I hope that Garrett gets some sort of closure, because again, he’s he’s a great ambassador for the game. He’s beloved people love watching him play. And we need a lot of people like him.

Brad Wilson (53:20) Yeah, I mean, but he’s not immune to being emotionally compromised. And he’s mentioned

JWin (53:26) that he’s been cheated before. Sure. Right. And I think there’s a very, he’s never reacted like this at all. Like everybody praises how great and he is with tough beats. Right. And he is he generally is and he handles things really, really well. But this is like a little out of character. Like, I don’t think we’ve ever seen him be this man at anything.

Brad Wilson (53:49) He was shook. Yeah, he was he was shook. I shouldn’t

JWin (53:53) be if he if he jet him genuinely think he’s cheating. Yeah, this is this is the response you would expect. I wish he didn’t tweet though. Because he could have whatever tweet he wanted to write, it could have waited a couple of days. But now, we’re just going to talk about it more and it’s a fun topic to talk about, but it’s one of those things it’s like alright, like what is there a good outcome out of this? I don’t know. Apparently one of the one of the the backstage people says like, they think they found something in the videotape. I don’t know what it is. I don’t know if it has something to do.

Brad Wilson (54:33) With why are people doing these things? Right? Like, why is this even like, dude, if you found something just show it like why like why you’re just like, stoking they’re

JWin (54:41) trying to get Yeah, you know, I shouldn’t have said anything at all. Like they should have just waited until they got the full clearance and then bring it out. And I don’t think you’re you’re right, one more show. Nick made one more call like around six in the morning when he was six in the morning central time when he was taking his kids to school or something like that. And he had mentioned that looked like he’s gonna hire an outside firm that just gonna make sure this is like all like PR damage stuff, potentially. But he’s like, look, we’re gonna hire a PR firm, we’re going to make sure that processes are correct. And we’re going to feel any potential security leaks.

Brad Wilson (55:14) Well, PR firm would be public relations. It’d be like a independent security firm. Yeah, yeah, I would. I mean, look, I don’t, I don’t know that this is in the budget for this $100,000. But I mean, to me, you need an unbiased third party to investigate the situation. And you know, the money should be in escrow. Right. Like someone like Phil golf on I know, Phil golf on is actually friends with Garrett in real life. So maybe that makes him not the ideal candidate, but somebody is

JWin (55:47) a they will not get involved with the financial part of it, because that was something that Robbi had specifically said to US tour, specifically offered, so they’re gonna stay away from that.

Brad Wilson (56:02) But I think moving forward, once the dust settles, emotions are calmed down, as you said, I think it’s a, I don’t think it was super wise to have a tweet storm. Unless you know, emotions pass things cooled down, you’re able to look at the situation more objectively, and then then write it if you still feel the way you do, then great, but in a moment of high emotion, I think only bad things are gonna happen. And then, given a few days space, the solution to me would be to have someone an independent person who looks at everything as objectively as possible, looks at the facts, and makes a judgement. And if the judgment goes for Garrett, then he keeps the money. And if the judgment goes for Robbi, then it goes to her and, you know, then let the all the public relations stuff, settle itself after that, but I mean, that’s the that’s the fairest thing to do in this situation. I think that just her giving the money back is exceptionally unfair. Because if you misread your hand, and you win the pot, you win the pot. You deserve the pot, because you want it right. And there’s nothing illegal. There’s nothing wrong about that. So yeah, I mean, that that, to me would be the fairest way to go after this. But yeah, to me, to me, and again, it’s my subjective opinion based on everything that we know at this moment. I think the most likely thing is she misread her hand on stream she even said she she had a three Can you beat a three and then a lot of hands downstream from that you know, she even upstream from that right like the the jack he called the turn drawing dead. She called the turn with top set when the board route for flush, and she lost. So there’s a lot of hands that were played were like, yeah, it’s she lost. I mean, and again, if somebody is so bad at cheating, right, which is another part of the argument that they’re not really great at poker they’re really bad at cheating so don’t understand relatively how obscene it is to call in on the turn with Jack. Hi. They just know they have the best hand and they’re going to have the best hand on the river Yeah, the the problem with that that argument is that there were hands where she didn’t you know, she she just didn’t win on the river. So she should have known in those hands as well. So then why this particular moment? Back Hello. Yeah, so that’s really my opinion on this matter. If you have anything else left to say, I guess now’s the time and if not, we’ll go to YouTube and your thoughts from the listeners and viewers. Yeah.

JWin (58:57) No final thoughts for me? Yeah, it’s it’s spicy and fun to talk about in the moment. I think it’s an unfortunate situation I think that somehow everybody gets the closure that they need and that I hope that at the end of whatever said investigation that were to occur, that they don’t find anything that it’s simply a matter of great river shove or great turn shove and really bad river call that one to me like I hope that’s all it is.

Brad Wilson (59:29) And just a misclick right. I mean, which everything lines up everything that was said everything that happened lines up if she miss read her hand, because she said can you be the three ladies like Oh, you gotta mid pocket pero you give me that much credit thinking I have a three right and mid pocket bears are better than a three and then sort of brain being frazzled when she turns her hand over and has Jack hi and attempts to like explain it much to you know her own detriment. I think it like just, she’s getting grilled. In her mind. She even mentioned to Garrett, like, you’re really mad at me right now you’re really angry. I mean, you can feel that energy, you can feel that emotion that’s not going to cause somebody to express themselves more coherently at the table. Mm hmm. Yep. 

JWin (1:00:21) Yeah, I guess we’ll find out more. Find out more. Yeah, that’s what might come out with another position today. So or

Brad Wilson (1:00:27) another piece of piece of content?

JWin (1:00:30) I mean, surprised that they put out any other spicy news? This is my guess is they want to protect the integrity of the stream, and they should probably take their time before putting out

Brad Wilson (1:00:41) well, they already have put out info. They already are. Right. We may

JWin (1:00:44) have additional evidence or additional interesting things on the on the footage to look at, but I don’t know. Ya know, we’ll find out more soon.

Brad Wilson (1:00:53) Yeah, we’ll see if there’s a smoking gun. You know, there is no smoking gun with possible and there was lots of hours of footage that people poured through. So seems very unlikely. That’s the case. And yeah, it just, it’s an unfortunate thing that happens. And by the way, I guess one final thing I actually, you know, I don’t think that Garrett is attacking her because she’s a female. I think he’s attacking he would attack anybody in this situation for sure. 100 Roma, the way that the hand went down, I think it’s just she just happens to be a female happens to be to be a woman.

JWin (1:01:27) But you know what the pretty cool thing of this whole thing is, I have not seen anyone go that direction at all. Like it wasn’t a Garrett being mean to a woman type thing. You know what I mean? Yeah. Well, that obviously speaks a lot to Garis character. It was just more like,

Brad Wilson (1:01:42) if there’s one of you cheated out of 270 K bar, right. A lot of money. Yeah, it’s a lot of money. He doesn’t want to be cheated, which makes a lot of sense. So yeah, I guess. Good stuff, man. Great. Emergency podcast, and we’ll see what happens in the next week or so.

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