DGAF: Cue the Montage - On the High Stakes Poker Comeback Trail
Chasing Poker Greatness Podcast Episode 159
DGAF on social media:
Today’s CPG brings back good friend, renowned high stakes vet, the host of “Sessions”, and founder of poker apparel brand PokerRags DGAF.
And these days, apparently, he is back to GAF which is absolutely music to my ears.
So if you love comebacks, crazy journeys, self-examination, brutal honesty, and the pursuit of excellence in the world of POKER, today’s episode will be right up your alley.
But before you dive into today’s episode I wanted to let you know you can check out all the current CPG courses at chasingpokergreatness.com/courses.
All the CPG postflop courses are powered by meticulously analyzing massive amounts of data so that the strategies they teach you are outrageously effective in any game you play in.
There’s a reason why over 60% of the folks who buy one course, buy all of them… They flat out work.
So once again that’s chasingpokergreatness.com/courses to check out everything I’ve cooked up thusfar in my Den of Greatness.
And now without any further ado, I bring to you a world-class poker player and a good friend who has the 2nd best podcast in poker, DGAF.
Click any of the icons below to find the CPG pod on the platform of your choice. Then sit back, relax, and enjoy my conversation with DGAF on the Chasing Poker Greatness Podcast.
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Pokers legendary champions, next generation stars and tireless ambassadors who gave sharing their wisdom and guiding your journey to high achievement on the green felt. This is chasing poker greatness with your host, Brad Wilson
Brad Wilson: Welcome, welcome. Welcome my friend to the chasing poker greatness podcast. As always, this is your host, the founder of chasing poker greatness.com. Coach Brad Wilson, and today’s guest on the show is good friend renowned a high stakes vet, the host of sessions and founder of poker apparel, poker rags, D, G, A F. And these days, apparently he’s back to ghf, which is absolutely music to my ears. If you love comebacks, crazy journeys, self examination, brutal honesty and the pursuit of excellence in the world of poker. Today’s episode will be right up your alley. But before you dive into today’s show, I wanted to let you know you can check out all of the current CPG courses at chasing poker graininess.com/courses. All of the CPG post flop courses that you hear trailers for and chasing poker greatness are powered by meticulously analyzing massive amounts of data. So the strategies they teach you are outrageously effective in any game you play in. There’s a reason why over 60% of the folks who buy one course end up buying all of them. That’s because they flat out work. So once again, that’s chasing poker greatness.com/courses to check out everything I’ve cooked up thus far in my den of greatness. And now without any further ado, I bring to you a world class poker player and a good friend who has the second best podcast and poker. DGAF. Mr. AF, is that how you respond now, Mr. AF Mr. DGAF?
DGAF: Sure, however you want however you want to say it.
Brad Wilson: Welcome back to the show, man. It’s good having you Nice seeing you.
DGAF: It’s always nice seeing you, man. You look good. Your hair looks different. Maybe something looks different. But you look good.
Brad Wilson: I appreciate it. I yeah, I My hair’s grown back, there was a period over the last year where I just didn’t have PE hair for? I don’t know, eight months or so. Just yeah, you looked like a tough guy before. Now you look like a nice guy again. Yeah, hair. That’s that’s what it does. It just affects all the things. But yeah, I want to ask you or catch up on what you’ve been up to over the past year. I know you’re obviously still doing sessions and in the podcasting game and Live Poker, not being a thing has had to impact you pretty heavily, I would imagine.
DGAF: Well, yeah, my My priority is content. It’s my podcast sessions, I dropped at least four times a week. And you know, a lot goes into each drop. I don’t have to tell you that. But I also know I have been playing Live Poker the whole time. And in the penalty boxes, they have set up the different casinos is definitely not the same. But it’s something and I actually you’re gonna like to hear this, I actually kind of have the bug again, I want to I think last time we talked I said I just wanted to call up in life again. And I didn’t care how whether it be through content, or like my business poker eggs and or poker, I kind of want to come up in life and I don’t care how but I also want to I also want to flex my muscles in poker one last time. So I kind of I am chasing poker greatness again. Actually. That’s, that is actually really good news. That’s really great for me to hear because you’re someone and do you mind being judged because I’m gonna judge you for a moment. i There’s nothing I like more in life than being judged. Okay, so so I’m gonna, I’m gonna judge you then since you love it so much.
Brad Wilson: You have so much ability in poker. Like you’re just a great, tough, ferocious opponent at the poker table, somebody that demands respect when, you know, at least in my experience, when I’m going to work with you. And to me, I think that like with your your potential is pretty much unlimited. And I feel like, you know, over the past few years, there are times where you’ve, you’ve been the limiting factor in your own growth, development and ability as a poker player. And I think that like yes, one thing that Again, I’ll judge is that I feel like you’ve held yourself back over the last few years. And I like that, you know, I want to see you unleashed and just be the fucking beast that I know you to be. And yeah, that to me, so yeah, you invest in yourself into poker and getting the bug again, man that fires me up, like, I’m excited for you.
DGAF: I thought you might like to hear that. Yeah, I. So when, when I got way into content, obviously, I put poker on the back burner, because I had a new passion, new love, and I’ve been in the game for so long. And I’ve had these periods of running so horrible that, that they really made it tough for me to play, to focus and to stay off tilt. And I think just talking about it for four years, in my podcasts, I’m kind of coming around the corner of, I can handle it, now I can, I can, when I go on till I can quickly get myself off tilt. And I’m enjoying the new ways to own people at the table. It’s just kind of, it’s kind of fun.
Brad Wilson: It is fun learning and growing and honing your craft is to me, it’s always fun and exciting. And throughout the pandemic, you know, I guess you and I, we have like different sides of it. But me it’s been creating training, right? Like, that’s how I built my business was to create coaching, create training products, and use the podcast is like the tool to get people in, you know, just to get people in my web, right to get people familiar with me as a human being. And if you like me, and you want to learn more, and you want to improve at poker, buy some of my training products. And just the act of creation, and data analysis and learning and coaching has just done wonders for my poker game like today, I can say with absolute confidence that I’m at the peak of my powers. And yeah, I just feel like just an animal. And I attributed a lot to just, you know, building my business effectively like trying to figure out like, How can I teach people in a way that isn’t currently on the market. And that I think would be the best way that I can Brad Wilson create training products, and that’s just sort of elevated my game in the meantime. So yeah, but it’s a thrill. I guess, throughout your sessions venture, you’ve found the love again. And that’s a great thing, maybe through your community, too, you know, you have a bunch of people that love playing poker, and I’m sure that that’s motivating.
DGAF: Yeah, it was interesting, I’ve kind of been about the story. I do enjoy Storytelling, which poker actually is Live Poker is for sure. Right? When you’re at the table, you’re trying to get your opponent to think something about you and about your hand each hand. And so you get you can get pretty creative. And, and I’ve taken that into content. And I didn’t care really how how I did at the poker tables, as long as I was captivating people with my podcast. And then someone who was supporting me said, I don’t want to hear this guy lose any quick, right? And it kind of made me mad. And I just said, Okay, I won’t lose any more. And I kind of ripped off 1212 wins in a row. After that, and it’s kind of I haven’t really had any big wins. I haven’t been running sizzling hot, which I feel like you have to run sizzling hot to really feel that like that the power you were talking about. I know you play online is it’s just much different. You can you can get the volume in and you can feel good about constantly making the best decision in life, you kind of do need to have like a big session here or there to really kickstart you into like, Okay, I’m just going to keep going on to play as high as I can. As I can play I’m going to I want to play against everyone and in is as big as we can play. I haven’t had that yet. But I do think it’s coming. I think I’m working towards it. I don’t you said you’re at the peak of your powers in poker. And I believe that because you’re, you’re every day focused on strategy, and you’re playing a good amount. I’m not there yet, but but I do watch poker again. And I watched the biggest games on stream and, and part of me is starting to have that like well, I would have I would have figured that out very quickly what this person was doing, and I’m not there yet. I’m not in poker shape, if you will. I’m just not a have too many things going on my life but I do think I’m gonna I’m going to do it one more time. Whether it be neck right probably like next year I hope to to really climb all the levels and just fucking go for it.
Brad Wilson: And I think that whenever you make up your mind to do so you will and that’s just the reality of it. What’s been helpful and beneficial to me. I just had Andrew broke us on from the thinking poker podcast. And we talked about one of my private coaching students who’s, you know, CO the co host tactical Tuesday with me now. And he’s just young and hungry, and wants to play as big as he can and see what he’s made of, and test himself, you know, against good players. And in the meantime, just destroy the worlds of everybody else who’s foolish enough to sit against him at the poker table. And like, it’s so easy for me to feed off of that energy and be like, Man, I love this kid, like, you know, it’s just like, I’m going to do this. And it’s not about even the money. It’s just about seeing what I’m made of, and what I can do, and like, you know, we’ve had conversations about him going to tell he’s like, Would it be crazy if I just like, go play on Live at the bike, like after they turn off the feed, just to like, test myself against like, Garrett and that crew, and I’m like, Nah, man, go, like, as long as you can afford, you know, dropping three or four by ends at like 2550 and l, then test yourself, right? And that’s just like, it’s, it’s motivating. It’s, I feed off of that energy. And I’m like, God damn, like, he’s gotta go, he’s gonna go play in that game, but test himself, like, I want to go test myself now. Like, I want to play, you know, the biggest stakes online that I can find. I want to travel around and play the biggest games that they spread, and it’s just contagious. When you have somebody that you’re working with that closely, who has that kind of energy, man, it it drives you. It’s just very motivating.
DGAF: Yeah, agreed. I don’t know what’s motivating me, I think, honestly, it was, it was that supporter. I felt like I was doing my job as a podcaster. Just telling great stories, more often than not, and then and then I realized people also want to hear you went in poker and, and I don’t know, it just pissed me off to the I quit, because I wasn’t, I wasn’t losing. I haven’t had a losing year, but I’m just not winning shit. And not I’m stuck at this, at this level that doesn’t suit me at all, like to five and 510 where it’s just, you got to try and make the best hand a bunch. It’s all multiway it’s, it’s not that interesting to me. And so I don’t know kind of lit a fire under my ass. So yeah, I also want to play much, much bigger like, like, your student or CO coach.
Brad Wilson: He’s He’s my student and co host on tactical, my strategic episodes on to host Okay, yeah, my co host.
DGAF: Why? Why are we not saying his name?
Brad Wilson: His name’s John. His name’s John. And we got to give him a little.
DGAF: They know your name out there, man.
Brad Wilson: Oh, everybody in my sphere knows, knows about John, we’ve talked about him a bunch. He’s, you know, went from being like a live nit. Basically, I believe in like, July or August or September of last year contact me for private coaching, never played online, and basically just bought in, you know, he’s just one of the people that trusted and bought in to my coaching methodology. And, you know, private coaching, basically, he would show up every week with a NASA like report on his homework that was just so thorough that like, it was obvious he’s putting in the work. And he’s he’s focused and growing. And long story short, you know, this January rips off, first month of the year rips off 50k When playing online poker and then went to Vegas, ripped off like a 20k when playing like 510, and a little bit of 1020, but mostly 510 over the course of a couple of weeks. Like he’s just basically, yeah, he’s crushing everything right now. And it’s exciting, right? Like, it’s exciting in the way that like, it brings me back to the beginning of my career when it was like full of possibility and you don’t know where you’re going to end up and everything is an adventure and exciting and you’re testing your mettle. And yeah, it’s just it’s, I’m a rounded again, and that’s like, okay, let’s fucking go. Like, I want to be the best that I can. Because you’re trying to be the best that you can. And I’m just having people close to you like that. I mean, it can just mean the difference between stagnation and busting through transcendence, right. In your case, you mentioned that your patron basically left because they wanted to hear a happy ending, right. They wanted to hear some good news. I would say like, in every journey in every story, you know, there are ups and downs, but they’re certainly up so we need your ups to
DGAF: Yeah, no, I understand that. It’s a I understand. I just thought people just wanted to have their minds taken away for an hour. But yeah, you do need ups. I agree with you there. I’ve already you said it brought you back to this guy. Making his first rise is bringing you back to when you did. So I’ve already I’m older, I’ve already done it twice, like I did it. And then I had to have that, that. Okay, let’s do it again, I did it. And then this third one is so much harder than the first two for so many reasons. But like I said, and I kind of was just leaning on my content, which is growing, my sport for my content grows every month. And that’s obviously a great trend, right? If your salary goes up every single month, it’s easy to get complacent in poker, and Sam is gonna show up and, and document these crazy characters and these funny hand histories. And, but also, now I have an itch to like, own some faces again. So
Brad Wilson: I’m excited to see you owning faces. And I hope it’s not my face. But if it is, it is, so be it. It’ll be fun. It’ll be fun going through the process of Playing Cards Against you again, I do look forward to that. So now, we’re going to actually take a look at your stories and go through the Greatest Hits, right. So just imagine all of your poker adventures and stories that you’ve had if you could create like an album of the best of the best stories that you just would tell family or friends sitting around a table. Tell me one of those stories.
DGAF: So I guess I should start at the beginning this the story of how I got hooked on no limit Hold’em. And I’ve told this in different places, but it’s worth repeating. I was I’m old enough that I was already in Casino I was already a casino rat before no limit. I was playing stud High, Low and limit Hold’em. And I was just a preflop warrior. I just knew what hands to start with. And that was basically enough to eke out a really small win rate and really small games. But who gives a shit, I had turned my gambling habit into something profitable. And then after ESPN aired, Chris moneymaker winning the 2003 main event, which I think they did maybe in 2004, or whenever it was the casinos that spread a no limit game that morning. I was there not to play no live because there never was no limit. So the very first day, they started a one, two game, right. And no one knew and I just took a seat. I didn’t know how to play no limit, right. And maybe 30 minutes into the session. I had, I had loosened up quite a bit compared to limit Hold’em limit Hold’em. I played very tight. And just intuitively, I knew I could play way more hands in this format, right. And I called an early position raise with nine seven offsuit against an old man with suspenders, which is you’re kind of lighting money on fire. Unless you’re going to go for it a good amount, right? And I didn’t even know it’s gonna go for it. Maybe subconsciously I did. And it wasn’t even a great play. I just I flopped a drop hit over pair. You bet. I called turn was a break. He bet I called River was a brick he checked. And I just had an aneurysm and I just said all and, and so it’s obviously not repping a ton. It’s you know, it’s a very debatable line. But this was, what 17 years ago at least. And he turned over jacks and overpowering folded. And it was just one of those moments in life like, oh shit, I know this is for me, this game is for me because I’m not the most patient person in the world. And if I can win good money without the best hand, what’s gonna happen when I have the best hand? And they maybe 10 or 15 minutes later they say okay, well now we’re starting to for no limit Hold’em. Of course I went to that game. And really, I it was a pretty big moment in my life. It poker became it went from this little side gig I did to make little little you know, beer money and whatnot. To I became obsessed with it. I read every single book i i, you know, looked two plus two as hard as anyone I contributed a lot in two plus two. I became a world class no live no limit Hold’em player. And, you know, it did a lot of things for me in life and, and as paid many bills in. Yeah, so that was the first story of significance.
Brad Wilson: But in all my interactions with you, I rarely I think we’ve rarely talked about poker strategy. I know that we’ve never talked about it deeply. Which I think it’s interesting in and of itself that my my read on your poker game only comes through firsthand experience with playing against you instead of you know just you diving deep into strategy discussions, and I know that like, maybe that’s like the old school way of never discussing strategy, but you have to have like some confidence that you discuss strategy with, right? Like, whether it be, you know, Cory from commerce, or just some human beings in your life that you regularly talk strategy with write,
DGAF: It was mostly on two plus two. Okay, I obviously have a lot of people in my life who are world class players as well, um, mostly we’d rather talk about something else. Occasionally, we would break down hands, I was I was sick, obsessed with it during the boom. So people were making easy money. And that was cool. I was making the easy money and wanted to get way better. And so I was just, I did most of it interacting online in the forums. And just any hand that ever got posted, I weighed in on I, I, I listened, I, you know, sometimes change my opinion, often stuck with my opinion, and didn’t care that it was different than what the online players were saying about a live hand. And, yeah, so I did a ton of strategy work back then to the point where I could get better technically, at no limit, I could get much better preflop. But I know what I know what the key is, for me, the key for me is to be just be calm at the table, I can autopilot the decisions prefer, I’ve just done it. So many, like, you know, 10s of 1000s of hours, right? And if I’m calm, I can stay up till and I can not feel cursed or angry. I’m just hyper perceptive. I know what my opponent has, and not only what they have, but I know what their thresholds are, are they ready to or they’re ready to dump Are they are they never going to stack off because they just doubled up. And that’s the psychological part is my edge. And so I realized that lately that when I can get, but I can just do some breathing before I started, whatever it happens to be going relaxed. That’s when I just really like my side. So that’s, that may sound old school, it probably is. But that’s the strategy thing for me is I just have to have the mindset when I’m playing. Because I know often I don’t and I don’t play that well. You know, people can read me, which is, which is which sucks. And I can’t read them. And I second guess well, when I have the right mindset, they can’t read me I can read them. And I just know right away what to do. And I go with it occasionally. It’s not the right move, but most often it is and it’s a feels good.
Brad Wilson: It’s yeah, it’s about confidence, really, it’s about just confidence, belief in your ability, and you know, your mindset kind of going into it. I think that. So what’s interesting is like basically the way that we’ve been able to train and learn about poker has advanced and sophistication so much in the past, not just five years, but the past like two years, as far as I’m concerned that there’s you know, upgrading and expanding your awareness on some areas that you would be very, very interested in, I think they are available. And for somebody like you, they would just be devastating for the opponents that you’re battling against what what you mentioned before, though, is something that resonates with me very much in just having understanding psychologically, that somebody is about to go off like a rocket, it’s like, almost a sixth sense in a way where it’s like somebody hasn’t, they haven’t done anything out of line for hours that you’ve played against them. And then for some reason, it’s like a spider sense, tingles. And you just know that this is the time. This is the moment that they’re about to just go off like a rocket. And then like, it’s always shocking to me how often that read is just on the money.
DGAF: Yeah, if you feel it, it’s crazy how accurate it is. So you just like maybe I’m not going to three bet like, you know, King King jack suited here because it’s going to be there. It’s just time, right? It’s just time where I’m gonna get for bat. And maybe there’s a better way to play this hand. Whereas every hand leading up to this, it’s just punish this guy punish and well, you know, he’s reached his boiling point. And and that’s, that’s when you have to play differently. And that’s when you have to go for value only against this guy, you know, on most boards, and yeah, it’s just an adjustment you make at the table being being hyper perceptive.
Brad Wilson: Yeah, it’s like you make the rays and you just you have this like, giddy sense of yourself on the inside where like, you’re going for this race, which isn’t even like a clear value race, right? We’ll just say like top pair top kicker or something like you basically choose an action that You’re rarely choosing, but inside, you know that this is like the moment that they’re just gonna go out, like you just know that they can’t help themselves. It’s the boil, they’ve reached the boiling point, it’s all led to this. And they’re about to just do something catastrophic, and you’re just going to be there to reap the rewards. That’s like, I guess with Live Poker, that’s probably the feeling that I missed the most where it’s like, yeah, somebody’s played pretty well for eight hours, but then you just know that they’re at that point, they’re about to give it away. And you’re about to be the recipient. And it kind of sucks for them. But it’s also like, pretty cool that, I guess, you know, you and I, we’ve honed our ability to just be in the moment and feel though that type of energy coming from somebody and then to execute at a high level, there’s a lot of pride that goes into that. It’s a good feeling.
DGAF: Yeah, it’s a good feeling, knowing like when they are imploding, but it’s, it’s also really good. Knowing what people think of you. So due to my busy schedule, I play some Sunday sessions where I don’t drink, I play some night sessions where I’ve already worked all day, I broke my fast and have some beers. And I know, I know the difference in my image at the table, right. And in the day, I love actually way more than than a night. But you know, like, I’m playing against a newer Pro. And recently, I had a hand I had a sniper, and it came like 9x x. And I bet and he had a hit open and he checked called. And then the turn was a jack. And he checked and I checked, and then the river was a brick and he checked and so I just knew both that my hand was good that he just almost exactly had like pocket AIDS. And I knew he couldn’t fold to him because I had a Jamison and Diana Stella in front of me. And I just bet like as much as I could with ace nine on 9x X Jack eggs, and I got the call and I turned my head and it was good. And like that kind of stuff. Feels good. It wasn’t him imploding. It was him looking down, like, Who’s this guy that just walked in this casino at 3am. And, and so you just get, you know, you just go for the value there were whereas if it’s, if you know, if you have a different image, you have to play the hand differently.
Brad Wilson: Yeah. It’s just about an image and their perception of you. And like, obviously, with you a drink in hand, they’re more likely to look you up when you bet big in those spots, then, yeah, if it’s like during the day, you’re playing against just other people and you’re in like good shape and good mental state, right? It’s just, it’s just different. Get more folds, you get more fold. So you try to bluff more. That’s the that’s the adjustment. But yeah, always be aware of like, how you’re perceived, even if that perception is that like you’re steaming, you’re on tilt, right. Like I mean, that’s something that’s worked in my favor over my life poker career as well, where like, you lose a big pot. And then, you know, you ribeye and like, just immediately get aces. And it’s like, oh, sweet, like, now I get to sell the steam angle of the situation where like, Yeah, I’m just going to be overly aggressive, or the perception is that I’m going to be overly aggressive. I think that obviously, in my mind, it’s kind of all the same, but like, understanding how people perceive you at the poker table is just worth a lot of money over your poker career.
DGAF: Absolutely. No, I wasn’t really thinking about it before. But since we started talking, I think the one difference that also you probably like to hear lately is that I have been, I guess I’ve been playing tighter preflop I’ve gotten rid of like the really garbage hands in most spots in, you know, unless the game Super short handed. But that’s something people have wanted me to do forever. And it comes from, I had a period of time where I only played heads up pretty much even in the live arena. And people probably are wondering how the hell did you do that? Well, I had the salesman’s skills to get it done. But someone very smart. Ryan Lux went by lucid dream on two plus two said, Be careful, it’s gonna wreck your full ring game. And it really did. It really did with with regard to hand selection. You just feel like you’re playing against bad players, you feel like you can play any hand and you just can’t. Maybe you could 10 years ago when there was sitting too deep, but you can’t now and if you don’t, you don’t have to think they’re good at all to fold hands. That, you know are are close and I think in the past few years, I was kind of getting in there with them just because I didn’t have enough respect for my opponents and how much the game change.
Brad Wilson: Yeah, and I mean, really, everything kind of hinges on And that first decision that we make in the tree, the preflop decision, and it’s like, you can kind of get away with that when you’re playing against lesser competition, because they’re not going to punish you in the way that you should be punished. But as you move up and the competition level rises, what you’ll find is like, you start playing too many hands, well, that’s just going to create situations deeper in the tree where you’re either over folding or over bluffing or over defending. Just because you started out with way more hands than you should have started out with in the first place. And now you have to manage those hands across all of the you know, the flop the turn of the river.
Yeah, it’s tiring. It’s, you’re gonna get punished in this day and age again, in bigger games, for sure. Even in like, even in games that aren’t that big during the World Series. If everyone’s allowed to come come out here. You obviously just had to play a lot tighter than you used to. You’re gonna get three bet a ton.
Brad Wilson: Yeah, blame me the blame. There’s on me and preflop bootcamp and getting people out there three betting and playing their fault, man. Yeah, I can live with it. I can live with it.
DGAF: Well, so as long as you don’t teach him what to do against the format. I’m okay with it.
Brad Wilson: Oh, they know all of it like 100 100 big blinds deep. They they’ve got their format bluffs. They’ve got their format value. They’ve got their five up, bluff. They’ve got all their five bet value range, like we’ve got heuristics we got we have it all. So
DGAF: we know what they’re gonna sell them up, and then there’ll be 200 big blinds deep,
Brad Wilson: and they’re lost. See that strategy right there? Did they have no fucking idea what to do at 200? big blinds?
Brad Wilson: What would you say is your poker superpower?
DGAF: My poker superpower is, is that that hyper sensitivity to people’s energy? It just really, it’s something that I don’t love in general. I’m just so sensitive to people around me so perceptive that when I’m out in public places, I like to have a buzz because I like to, like take the take that down a few notches, right? So I don’t like it. Like at a credit restaurant. It’s the worst I can, I can feel what’s going on with every family around me. Right. And, but at a poker table, it’s a superpower. No question. That would be my that would be my main superpower, I just kind of a soul reader. And it’s not even. It’s just, I just know what’s going on with people when I’m around them. And then the other thing is, I can usually not always I can think really fast, multitask, you know, weigh variables, and also keep conversation going and get information that way. So a multitasking will be the secondary one.
Brad Wilson: Yeah, I mean, the hypersensitivities certainly an asset. Do you have any stories about your superpower and action? Any hands that come to come to mind?
DGAF: I mean, I’ve made a lot of hero calls in my life. A couple have been horrible. I call 2k. It was seven High, one time on the river and the guy had to pair. But that’s okay. I’ve made a
Brad Wilson: 2k was seven. High, do we have like, can we get any sort of context? It’s like is so long hair? Like what is the deal?
DGAF: No, no, no, the board was it was his he called I had raised I think on a turn. And so his calling range was open and straight drives both of which seven high beat and two pair plus. So just when he just kind of like down to the river. After the river was a break and I had seven I had seven deuce off suit, which is not the best starting hand. But it’s what it’s what I had in this kind of street poker game. And so that’s an example of a kind of going wrong, but I was against his range. You could justify a call because he has the open enters and they’re all the open enters or six higher five high and yeah. 2k just down the drain, but it’s okay.
Brad Wilson: I mean, it happens in poker. I think like I made a card, Turner’s video, probably five years ago, where I’m pretty sure I called like 800 on the river with Jack high on like a board of 784 deuce. I mean, 783 Deuce Deuce or something like, and I had Jackson High, actually, that came in the board, but the board’s irrelevant, because the fish was just bluffing with like, a pair of deuces. And they were bluffing with a pair and kind of got me. But I remember playing that hand and thinking like, oh, like, do I really want to put this out there in the world? And then I realized like, Man, why not like you went with your read. You went with your instinct, like that’s what’s gotten you this far. Why? Why be ashamed of that now, you know?
DGAF: Yeah, I would say every session at least three times names when the cards are turned over. There’s a lot of confused faces at the table, including the dealer. So, more often than not, you just call with high car, even if it’s not that high in your right, like they had what you but sometimes it looks ugly, especially when they’re bluffing with a bluff catcher which people insist on doing. And that’s good. It’s good in general for the rest of us. But it’s frustrating when you can’t beat their bluff catcher with your bluff catcher, and they’re bluffing with their bluff catcher that you’re not teaching that are, you know,
Brad Wilson: that’s not a thing I teach. I think it’s I don’t know, I don’t know who’s teaching it. I don’t think anybody’s teaching it. I think it’s just like, a thing that people do is they kind of mix up like relative strength versus absolute strength and they undervalue a hand that’s like relative or they, they undervalue a hand that’s relatively strong for the situation. And then they bluff with it. And then it’s like, we think they’re polarized. And so we make a hero call. And we’re like, fuck, like, you got me. Got me with the deuces shove on the river?
DGAF: Yeah. So I don’t know that I have to think in what was it in season two of sessions. I documented every hand I played in the 2019 main event. And I was pretty locked in for that thing. Every day. And I made a couple plays that were you can only make a live game online, you just have to fold. And I just did the opposite I raised or I think they’re all raises, because I can like my, I didn’t have even a bluff catcher. So I think there’s a few instances in there of me using that. But I really just use it all the time to construct different ranges. It’s not, it’s not I don’t have standard ranges for situations. It’s all based on the person what’s going on with them in that moment, and, and how they’re behaving. And things they say, I’m so sorry, I don’t have anything that’s like, you know, amazing to hear, but I just use it all the time.
Brad Wilson: Well, I mean, you mentioned prioritizing data points. I think that’s the thing that best players do, they’re able to, I think there’s a little bit of a misnomer that top level players process a lot more information than other people, I think they’re just really good at prioritizing and ranking the data that comes their way. And using that to make a better decision than most people make, right? It’s like, basically just data prioritization, using those data points, like how people are talking, how they’re acting, how they put money in the middle, what they say like, what their perception of you is, all these things, they matter. And a lot of decisions can hinge on these data points, and just being aware of like, when they’re valuable, and when they’re not. I mean, that that’s a big thing. That’s an important thing that you got to be able to do, especially in Live Poker streets, where you just have access to many more data points than you do playing online.
DGAF: Yeah, so you call it prioritizing data points. I’ve always called it assigning weight to variables. There are endless variables in a live game. Because it got is the guy drinking is, is he winning? Did the dealer just piss them off? Did his wife just call like they’re so there’s endless?
Brad Wilson: Did he just listen to an Oreo? Or did he just Oh, yeah, you know?
DGAF: Yeah. Yeah, that would be one that you prioritize at the top? Yes. So yeah, I’ve always called it assigning weight. And it’s, when I’m playing my best I, the one thing that I give the most weight to and I think you always should, in life poker is what is this person capable of, with regard to risk, you can block the hands that should be shoving, they can for you know, for value, you they beat you. It can be unlikely they have on based on preflop and other streets, it can be a really narrow value range that that which makes it a snap call in theory, but you also can just know that fucking person cannot go all in with a bluff. Right? And so if there’s like one combo of, of Queens or whatever, that’s what he has, right? And so that, that risk aversion is should always be the heaviest variable when it comes to big decisions and no limit, at least at that the stakes. Most people play. You know, when you’re talking about really high stakes, people can obviously stuffing in there, and there’s other stuff that gets a lot more weight. But that’s the number One, it’s just can this person do this right now, and, and most people just can’t, which is why Live Poker is great, you just bluff all the time, and you just shouldn’t be paying off big bets. And, and that’s the kind of basic easy way to play.
Brad Wilson: I agree. And it takes a lot. I mean, let’s be real here, it takes a lot to run a really big bluff and put the money in. And it is difficult, especially, you know, when the pressure is on, and you’re outside your comfort zone, tell the story multiple times before on the show, but like, there was a time when I don’t know if you remember this, but the whole baiting thing where like, somebody’s got a river decision, and like, you feel like they’re probably going to fold and like, grab your cards and like, hold it over the muck, like, you’re like baiting them, like, I know, you’re gonna fold, let’s move on, let’s play the next hand, like, let’s go. And like, you just always have the nuts, right? Like anytime I’d ever seen it had done, they, whoever was doing it had the nuts, right. So I get this, I get this fucking idea in my head of like, okay, I’m going to do this against a good player in a moment where I think they’re not going to fold. And so I just had the plan, I had the thought. And then one day, the situation just developed where it’s a river, I jammed. It felt like they were going to call. And in like this moment of like, sort of desperation, it was like, alright, let’s pull this trick out of the bag and see how it works. And then I’m not shitting you like it took everything in my power to grab my cards and hold him over the muck with a bluff, like, it was physically hard for me to do, just because like everything sort of in everything that it goes against all the things right, like all the human biology, things of like, sit still don’t make yourself a target, like, they’re gonna see you. And as soon as I did it, the player actually they kind of scoffed a little to themselves and uncap their cards and threw it in the muck really quickly, which was like, a big relief. But it was really hard for me to even go through doing that reverse tell in the first place. And so like people who are inexperienced putting all their money in and putting themselves out there at risk like that. Some people just are not willing to do that.
DGAF: Most are not because if you’re a well adjusted human being, I think it’s it’s not. It’s definitely not natural to be like lying in hands. Like, I’m all in. But I’m actually lying because my hands sucks, right? It’s, it’s, oh shit, if I get called this is really gonna hurt, right? You well adjusted human beings don’t want to lie. They want to protect themselves against possible pain, right, possible great loss. Well, and most people are pretty well adjusted. Fortunately, for me, I got all kinds of issues. So I have no problem at the poker table. I do that I do reverse toes all the time. Like, the other day, I I bet a lot with absolute air. And then I said, I’ve been drinking all day, which was true. And I knew that my opponent would take that as always trying to get a call and he folded, same thing that you did, right? And it was sure I’d been drinking all day, and I had some dogshit hands that you know, I was just going no equity the whole way. And I just needed, I needed to get over the hump, right. And you see it, you see it in live games, any big decision. It could go either way, right? People are on the fence. And it could go either way. And sometimes it’s something you can say you don’t want to be cheesy. You don’t want to be predatory. You want it to be in the in the unwritten rules of the game, what you do, right, and you don’t want to slow the game down, of course, but there are little subtle things you can do to sway people’s decisions. And that’s the part I’m enjoying. That’s the the part the the new level for me is just a ton of talking and interacting while I’m just lighting it on fire with some horrible hand. And because I most of my career, I couldn’t do that I couldn’t be very, very confident and calm and funny. While I was bluffing it off, right? I could do it with the nuts like everyone else, but I’ve kind of enjoyed doing it with with that hands down. Kind of fun.
Brad Wilson: It is fun.
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Brad Wilson: John, I wanted to ask you why you decided to invest into preflop bootcamp,
Unknown Speaker: everything that you had done with me to that point, or I had heard you do, had impressed me. I love the podcast, I accidentally ended up in the poker Power Hour, and love that. And then I took coaching, and then you recommended the bootcamp. And at first I didn’t think it was, you know, something that would be that valuable. But I was like, everything else has been amazing. So I signed up, and then it just blew me away.
Brad Wilson: And what about bootcamp blew you away?
Unknown Speaker: Like, it started off slow, like, I’m learning these ranges, and I’m not even understanding what you’re talking about. And then all of a sudden, as I start to understand what we’re doing with the three bats before bats, all of a sudden, it just kind of hit me. And I was like, Oh, my God, how do I not know this stuff? This is amazing. The more I studied them, I started to understand why they were constructed sometimes, like, I’d be like, That’s why that’s like that. And that would lead to more revelations and just a better understanding of poker in general.
Brad Wilson: Do you have any interesting takeaways from your bootcamp experience?
Unknown Speaker: The most interesting thing about the bootcamp, it’s a preflop bootcamp, but I feel like it’s done as much for my post game, as it did for my pregame, just because I’m not in as many awkward and bad situations as I found myself in. You know, when we were doing coaching before the bootcamp, we couldn’t get through 1015 minutes of tape without finding mistake after mistake. And then once we did the bootcamp, it solved problems on the back end as well.
Brad Wilson: I know you’ve studied for 1000 hours this year. How do you think bootcamp compares to your other poker study?
Unknown Speaker: Oh, it’s crazy. The bootcamp is probably the most important thing I’ve done all year, out of everything. I would give anything to go back and to know that stuff 10 years ago, I can’t imagine how successful I’d be right now. If I had known that stuff, and I thought the bootcamp was so valuable, that I literally insisted you take more money from me and paid you more for the bootcamp. Because I was blown away, I just thought the price was too cheap. And it’s changed my game in ways that I can’t even explain to you
Brad Wilson: if you’d like to join the next round of preflop bootcamp, which starts on the last Saturday of every month, head to chasing at poker greatness.com/bootcamp to lock up your spot. One more time that’s chasing poker greatness.com/bootcamp.
You mentioned that we’re lying at poker. I do want to touch back on that because I think the like, it’s true. Poker is a game of deception, right? But I think there are lots of games of deception just like in the world. And I would say like the first conversation that I had with John Van Fleet, APE styles, we played a game on the show, since retired game and what stood out to me was just how fucking horrible of an actual liar he was. Just like in this like mini mini podcast game that I had, he was atrocious at like lying or being deceptive to another human being. And I just think that like poker is kind of the same and that like, yeah, it’s it’s a game of deception. But the reality is like gamesmanship is fun. I think it’s just makes for a more enjoyable experience. I think it’s absolutely foolish for major poker tournaments, to disallow like that sort of gamesmanship or talking. Or like when there’s a big decision on the river, somebody’s showing a card or showing their hand to be like, Look, this is what I have, like to get a read or what I just think it’s good for TV. It always made the game more fun for me just personally, but maybe I’m biased because I benefit from that sort of thing more than the average person. I’m certainly I’m certainly able to see that angle of it too. But I just think that like that sort of gamesmanship and the game within the game, of like talking and like yeah, it just to me, that’s part of what makes poker just a beautiful game and super fun and always interesting.
DGAF: What is the point? They don’t I know that I haven’t played a bunch of tournaments but you’re allowed to expose a card even if it’s heads up at the end, or no? Now like the best games are when you can expose a card like whenever you want it, right? It’s always you’re not slowing down the game. I don’t understand that. What are they doing protecting people from getting their mind is like, loan or what I don’t what are they doing?
Brad Wilson: It’s just like an overreaction. I don’t know if you remember the one year where there was like no F bombs at the WSOP, right? Or maybe it was like a few years where it’s just like, the worst thing you could ever possibly try to implement from somebody that probably never plays poker has never sat down and played in a poker tournament from auto hive. It’s like no, no more F bombs. And what happened in practice was like, basically, if the dealers liked you, you could drop as many fucking F bombs as you wanted to. If the dealer didn’t like you, and you said, the F word. Well, you’re getting you’re going straight to the penalty box, and you’re getting going into timeout, right? So like, it was very subjective, the implementation of the rule plus, like, there’s a vast difference between like me looking at you and be like, you motherfucker, or like, you, you know, getting Rivard and being like, fuck, right, like to do different situations. I think that like, it just got too rigid, right? Like, they’re just trying to be too rigid. They’re like, no good players can get an edge by showing a card on the river against the amateur player. So we’re not going to allow it ever at all. When it’s like, the amateur player can close their eyes, right? They can. They don’t have to look at it like that. I don’t know. It just struck me as kind of like, an overly read to me.
DGAF: Yeah, it seems like, Okay, you’re trying to protect people from having edge? Well, that’s what that’s what are we playing for? If you’re not allowed to have edge? Are we just sitting there? playing bingo? Like, no, it is about having edge. And I think I think you took on amateur and professional, I think that gap is just almost non existent. These days. There are there are amateur or recreational players that play just as well as the pros. The only difference is you don’t devote as much time. And they’re not as stressed out at the table. So sometimes they play better. I just Yeah, I don’t know why just wanted to fit that in that. I don’t really, you don’t. People just think like, oh, I can do whatever I want at the table. I’m an amateur player. Bullshit. You play just as good as everyone else. You have to you have to be cool, too.
Brad Wilson: Yeah, I mean, and we have like mutual acquaintances, or friends that are basically recreational, I think the term recreational is just kind of outdated and stupid. I don’t love the term recreational because like, it doesn’t say anything about the profile of the human being that’s playing cards, because like you said, like, Tango, for instance, is a recreational poker player, but like, he’s not giving it away, right, he’s going to play at a high level, and you’re not going to love seeing him in your game. Yet, he has a recreational type nicly I think the term that the term I’m trying to get caught on. Besides fish, which I think fish is more accurate than recreational for what it’s worth, is just an instinctual player, right? Somebody that like feel something and then acts on that impulse, or that instinct, they’re not trained in strategy. And to me, that just feels like a more accurate term, especially because like instinctual players worldwide, all do the same kind of ridiculously instinctual things, right? Like they play too many hands preflop, they’ll choose the same type of situations to bluff, they’ll find lines, and they’re not like in a chat room discussing poker strategy on like, how to how to play poker at a low level, right? It’s this is just like how human beings are constructed. So anyway, that’s my, that’s my big thing. I’m like, I think the difference is just like, one person acts purely on instinct with no real strategic background. And the other people have strategic background and experience and wisdom. And that’s why they play at a higher level in a bunch of spots. But in some cases, even if you’re a high level poker player, if you get put into a situation that is foreign to you, you can revert back to being an instinctual player, right? Like you can just feel something and then choose an action because you don’t know of anything else to do and that’s pretty interesting. Sort of tangent just in and of itself.
DGAF: Yeah, I tilt that’s an amazing thing. There until so many times and I’m so aware of it and yet it comes back every single session almost and then you have to battle to like, get rid of it. And I know what I’m on till I’m gonna play fire. I’m still gonna be a favorite but I’m not gonna have any superpowers at all right? It’s gonna be I’m gonna get own sometimes whereas you know, if you’re off tilt you have all that you know, all the experience all the training you’ve done all that stuff gives gives you a nice edge at the table.
Brad Wilson: Yeah, I mean, when you’re emotionally compromised, you start seeing things through a much narrower lens and that just kind of hold you back and to your detriment as a as a Live Poker Player. Yeah. What would you consider a weakness in your poker game? I guess pre flop, we’ve talked about that a lot, but anything else,
DGAF: it’s not as much of a weakness anymore. I mean, it’s become less of a weakness, it’s probably still a weakness, but it’s become much less of a weakness. Lately, I am just folding so much more. A weakness is my biggest weakness not close as tilt. It just is I just, I have the I what I call poker PTSD from from running in a way that usually ends people’s poker careers. And I’m too stubborn, and I’m too entrenched in it, that I just keep playing and keep playing, keep playing. And eventually, I’ll start running better. But it stays with you. The, the, you know, losing 95 fives just routinely, it stays with you. And it’s a creeps in the back of your mind. And you can’t have that when you’re playing a hand, right? Because it’s distracting it. And even if you’re going to get to the right decision is distracting and you’re going to miss something else. So it’s till you can call tilt or mindset. By far, my my, my biggest weakness, my, my A game. The amount of time I play my A game is just such a small percentage. And but at least it’s some percentage again now, right? And it’s hopefully it will become a bigger percentage. As time goes on. And I think for a few years, I just almost never played it. And at least lately I’ve been playing sometimes when you
Brad Wilson: say tilt, could you describe the inner dialogue that’s kind of going on in your head? Because like, you say this, right? And I think that people get an image of you like tilting your brains out,
DGAF: like oh, like overtly tilting, it’s, it’s internal. It’s, it’s thinking, you are the unluckiest person. This fucking lockbox, that just, you know, got there in some hand against you, you’re never gonna get that spot against, you start thinking about how slow Live Poker is. And that’s it mainly, it’s just focusing on variance too much. It’s not like this, this person is being a jerk, and I’m rattled, that almost never happens. And I’m not usually maybe at the end of a bad session, I’ll say a few words, like as I’m walking off or something, but that’s just because I’m a grizzled vet, man. But no, it’s, it’s, it’s being distracted. It’s having a very busy mind, as opposed to being very calm. And all you see, like you just forget about everything in your life. This will be my A game as I as I literally can only see the table, right? And my cards, and I’m just going around following the action while interacting with people and cultivating this good game. And I’m just locked in. I’m not thinking How unlucky I am or how lucky that guy is. I’m just thinking in a vacuum each hand, which is, you know, that that’s my A game, and I wait a few years without ever playing it. But lately, I’ve been playing it sometimes. And I would like to ramp that up, you know, to, I would love to get to like, a third of the time I’m playing my A game. And then And then, you know, hopefully beyond I think people say like, oh, I play my game all the time. I don’t believe anyone that says that. And especially anyone that’s been in the game, you know, as long as I have, it’s just too easy not to you think about your kids, you think about it, you know, all this other stuff in your life. And, and that means you’re instantly not playing your A game. You’re playing a game, you forget you have kids. I think
Brad Wilson 58:41
that somebody that says they play their A game all the time is lacking the awareness to discern the difference between their A game and their see game in the first place. Which kind of is a problem like inherently, just in and of itself. You mentioned so here, here’s the thing that I think is interesting that we can kind of tie everything back in is that when you are doing your podcast, right, and you’re talking about how unlucky you are, you’re verbalizing this and putting it out of the world, then that’s what your self image reflects, right? Like you’re you’re making it stronger by putting it out there and verbalizing it all the time. And I had the suspicion that like, as you start turning that around and putting it out there that you’re going to be playing your A game more often. That that’s just something that will naturally manifest because you’ll just, it’s just natural. We want to live up to our self image of who we are who we think we are. And when you put it out there verbally in a public place, like you know you do four days a week, and then on this show as well. Good things tend to happen when you put yourself out there like that.
Yeah, I I’m very committed to focusing less on variance. Just trying to put stuff in the pass quicker. It’s definitely not easy. It would be way too ideal to idealistic to say, it’s easy, but I do work on it I’m aware of, you know, that’s definitely my biggest my biggest weakness is I got this busy mind at the table, thinking about stuff that doesn’t have anything to do with winning money right now. And, and I know my game, when I’m playing my game. I literally after a while, won’t know where I’m at. I won’t have any idea what casino I’m at nothing, man, just all it is, is following the action around and talking and like, and just, you know, it being I guess they call it in the flow or whatever it is. Yeah, it’s a it’s a great feeling. And it’s training in a really good way. And I went years without having it. And I’ve tapped into it a little bit lately. Just a little, I’m definitely not ready to battle at the highest level right now. I think like, theoretically, I could I see and say that’s bad. That’s, that’s, you know, saw that coming. But would I be in that? Would I be playing my A game and in a really big tough game right now? No need to play it more often at these, you know, 510 type games?
Brad Wilson 1:01:18
Can I let me ask you a question. Do you think it’s coincidental that you’ve struggled the last three years? And you’ve also haven’t been in a flow state the last three years? Yeah,
I mean, struggling is a tough way to describe it. But my financial situation is a steep one. I kind of you know, and I’ve told this story so many times, where I don’t know in a blur, I hit her hit a rock bottom it four years ago and found myself in massive debt. Right. And it was honestly a blur it, there was no insight into it, right? Maybe like little glimpses here, but it was so blurry. And so being in debt, and having a high monthly net, which I do, if I had just said, I’m gonna play poker, I’m gonna I’m gonna commit to poker one last time, I would be out of it by now. Right? But I had this stuff that meant, that means so much to me the content, you know, I was I was always a writer, like, that’s, that’s my thing. Like, I’m just someone that needs to get stuff out. And in building a community and accompany so my, like, hourly rate, it’s fine. I just haven’t put in enough hours to get to bigger games where I can actually start, you know, making a dent in this comeback. And so it’s tricky. You can think, you know, the first time I went bust, I won like 60k that year. So is that mean I struggled in poker? Yeah, I struggled, but still didn’t lose. Right? It’s just a, there’s a lot more to it than what are you winning or losing at the poker table? Yeah,
Brad Wilson 1:03:17
there’s like treading water. And then there’s actually thriving, right? Like, that’s the difference. I wouldn’t imagine that you playing Live Poker, you could ever have a losing year, unless you like somehow lost half of your mind and went totally insane. You’re always going to be a winning Live Poker. It’s just excelling. Versus just kind of, you know, making it. Yeah.
I always said I could never have a losing year because I just, I’m built for it. Um, you know, being knowing what people are thinking is just very valuable at a poker table. And knowing what they’re thinking I’m thinking is valuable and all that. So no, I’m just a great fit for for live no limit, specifically, games that are more technical. I’m not because I’m too social. And it doesn’t interest me. But
Brad Wilson 1:04:07
you mentioned something, I don’t know if you’ve made this connection. But when you’re doing your podcast when you’re writing, you mentioned getting that creative side out of you and into the world and how that is so meaningful to you. And I would say that, in No Limit Texas Hold’em playing Live Poker, there’s also artistry in how we hone our craft, how we execute, there’s art, they’re, they’re seeing things that other people do not see. And then acting on them and doing things other people would not do, that you just intuitively know is going to be, it’s going to perform very, very well. And I think that like, that’s another side where you know, you and I, we are creative people, right, like that’s why we have podcasts and that’s why we write and that’s why we put the things that we put out there in the world. But first and foremost, you know, we are poker players, and there is that level of creativity and artists Dre as it relates to performing and playing Live Poker, that I think, yeah, I think the poker world is much better off when you’re an artist out there, kicking people’s asses at the big stakes and performing in flow. I think it’s just, yeah, the poker world needs as many of those human beings as, as you can find, just because like, I think it’s just a beautiful thing to see in motion.
DGAF: Yeah, thank you, I think. So let me just, let me just clarify what what we’re both talking about, I think, is I will be sitting next to someone and it could be a multi way pot, and they’re the button and I’m small blind, and, and they bet the flop with a hand I instantly know cannot stack off, right? Whether it’s whether they just have a pair under the top card, or they’re just, it’s a total bluff, or maybe it’s top pair, they just can’t stack off it. And I know that and no one else seems to have anything. And so your options are not to fool. Even though you don’t have anything, you shouldn’t be fooling here, you could call but that’s not great, because then someone else could make a move, and now you’re screwed, or someone else could call light and one of these guys could being. So that’s still not great. And sometimes if you’re not playing, if I’m not playing my best, I’ll never fall but I might call which is bad. And just like float multiway, which is just bad. And, and then the next step up is like no, I need to raise here, right? And I need to wrap like I’ve flopped something, right? And so you raise, and but you still don’t know everything about everyone else in the pot, right? You have ideas, but you don’t know everything. And so sometimes you’ll run into a slow plate set or whatever, and you just lit an unnecessary amount of money on fire, when the real correct play is to raise very small and win the pot on the turn. If everything checks out, the people that seemed weaker, weaken the fold, and the guy calls once and you get value for your bluff, you just are making more money, you’re losing less when someone you know, had something you didn’t realize. So that’s just like, it’s very basic strategy. But when you’re thinking of Fuck, man, I run the worst. My kids got basketball camp I gotta pay for right now all this shit that I do think about, that I try not to, that’s the difference is, is I will sometimes just raise big there. And it’s just not, it’ll work a ton, but it’s just not anywhere near as good as raising very small, and which just is going to scare everyone and then just betting something like bigger on the turn. And if they want to get sticky, then they’re gonna have to, they’re gonna have to call it all on the river. And it’s just a very, it’s just, it’s basic, right? It’s basic strategy, but it’s easy to not do it in the moment, right?
Brad Wilson: Yes, it’s efficiency, right? It’s like the small raise is more efficient than the large raise, and just having the patience and the discipline to just kind of see it and execute. I mean, knowing what to do is not the full battle because you actually have to do what you know you need to do, which is you know, it can be tricky, it can be a lot harder, then you would you might suspect, I guess this one hand always brings me back in time to like a my low level of technical play, but ability to pay attention really just pay attention to my human beings and I’m playing poker against had Queen five suited. This was in Tunica, probably 2005 or so I can’t even remember the size of the pot. I just thought I’d quit five suited. And I know that I was in the big blind and I called the raise and it was like four ways. And I flopped the five the flop was like 10 Five deuce. And that’s thank you is great. I flipped middle pair. I was super pumped. Okay, very good kicker. Yeah, queen, third, third best kicker. It checks around. I was paying close attention to all of my opponents. And the guy that was last to act was like watching TV, you know, he couldn’t have been less interested in the board or the pod or anything. So it checks through and like the turns a nine and I stabbed because like I did a lot of stabbing back then even four ways. So I stabbed four ways, I bet. And everybody faults this last guy that was kind of just like staring off into space. And now all of a sudden he raises me big. I stabbed like 100 or 150 whatever. And he raised me to like 800 or something and it was like it was one of those moments where I just knew like, you know, I put all the pieces together and it was like yeah, he’s got queen jack like basically had nothing on the flop no interest at all. And now all of a sudden they’re just he’s just using to raise with his opening is straight drawn over cards. Because like even if they would have had nines, they would have had some interest in the board. Like they would have considered betting they would have taken their time they would have just automatically checked so Anyway, I call the turn reverse like a Deus I check and they bomb like 1500 or whatever. And I call and he shows the queen jack. And like, I just remember thinking like, Man, I can do this. Like, I’m fucking, I’m paying attention. Like, I have a knack and a skill to play this game. And we’ll never forget his comment when he saw my hand his comment was just wow, if I knew you had that, I would have bet more. And I remember just thinking to myself, like, man, you got so owned, you don’t even know that you got owned or why you got owned. And like if you would have bet more, he would have just given me more money because like I had already assigned him queen jack period, in this exact situation with the flop data point. And it’s doing things like that I think in Live Poker just in the moment where you just know you just get a piece of information. And you’re like, Well, I know what you have. So yeah, let’s let’s go to work.
DGAF: What was what was the data point that you pray to prioritize to number one in that head?
Brad Wilson: That would be the flop check back in with zero interest in the board or the pod? The TV right him watching the TV?
DGAF: Yes, the flood check back because he could have gone ahead and do that. That’s true. It’s it’s him watching TV, right and just uninterested. And then it if you’re if you’re playing your A game, you know, that’s okay. This is the number one variable this gets the most weight right? When you have an impossible call with a five it’s an interesting lead on the term but anyway, give it a possible call.
Brad Wilson: 2005 man it’s interesting.
DGAF: Okay, so the only possible call except for this one thing that doesn’t exist in online poker and, and, and probably most trading sites would say like, that’s stupid. Just don’t even think about that. You just have to fold here, but you are correct in giving it the most weight. Or prioritizing it number one, and you were able to just win this fat fucking pot. Because you went beyond the basics of Oh, Queen five is a bad fucking hands on 10 Five GS nine when I get 8x rays on the turn. Right? Yeah, so that’s pretty cool. We’re your, your your soul reader at heart.
Brad Wilson: I think so. I love that term. By the way, like Soul read. It’s so like, it’s such a I don’t know who came up with it. But man, it is fucking just on point where like, you are reading somebody’s fucking soul in some of these spots.
DGAF: Well, a lot of the live stuff like Soul reading, mainly saw reading in there. I guess there’s other stuff too, is actually very relevant to the live game. And when online poker came around, and people online poker was obviously from the beginning. And forever, way more advanced technically than live. No question, right? But with that came all the experts were online players, all the ones, you know, posting stuff, and they just made fun of all the live stuff that’s actually very real. It just, it just is people do rays to see where they’re at. And, you know, people do soul rate, like, look at that hand. You just played you. Who How could you call 8x rays with Queen five and 10? five, deuce nine, are you? Sorry, you just went beyond poker beyond you know.
Brad Wilson: Eventually, if I would have posted it on two plus two, they would have destroyed it. Right? Yeah. Yeah, exactly.
DGAF: They would have. And when I was posting, I think it was 2000 Eat a lot. I was getting roasted at the beginning because I was doing all this stuff. Right? And then like by 2011 I never got roasted. Everyone just agreed with me. Because I was winning all the money and all the people that were roasting me were fucking gone. They’ve been washed out. And like, yeah, so nice hand, man, clean five.
Brad Wilson: It’s funny. You kind of don’t want either one, right? Like, neither are especially great. You want you don’t want people just like coming after you just to come after you because like, they can expand the way they think about poker. But you also don’t want everybody agreeing with you either. Because then you don’t get to grow or have to, like validate your ideas, theoretically, like you need some pushback. So that you really think hard about what you’re doing and not just assume that it’s good because everybody just agrees with you.
DGAF: Yeah, I think I think even the you don’t want either but but the former is actually better for you than then everyone agreeing with you. And that was just like when it was time to like, stop posting, right? Like, what am I doing? I’m just like, giving all this stuff away for free. And I’m not really learning anything because people are just sitting plus one every single time.
Brad Wilson: Yeah, nobody’s challenging you right now It’s been good having you, you know, we’ve we caught up, I had questions prepared and stuff prepared. But I just want to save all that because I need to have you back on the show in the near future. You’ve excited me, you’ve made me excited. You’ve excited me and said it made me excited about your path and your journey moving forward. And now I feel more invested, right? Like, let’s get him on the show and catch up and see, you know, the steps that you’ve made and what you’re doing and how it’s going.
DGAF: I figured you would you would like that I’ve kind of kind of chasing poker greatness I have, I think I’ve achieved it twice for pretty long periods of time. And I’m trying to do it a third and definitely final time, on my way out. And it doesn’t mean I’m gonna sacrifice anything with my podcast or my community or my startup poker, eggs, those those get all my love and everything I have, but I’m carving out time and energy and passion for poker too. I just started when that when that fucker stopped supporting me because I wasn’t winning enough. And I just kind of made me mad. And I just I don’t know, I’m gonna, I just decided I’m not losing any more. So, you know,
Brad Wilson: I’m gonna say that that’s the supporter you needed. That supporter. That supporter is like the one that you needed in that moment that is going to provide you the most value.
DGAF: Yeah, so now I’m on the hook for running it up in poker one more time. Even if I brought it up in podcasting, or business before then I’m still on the hook to do it one last time.
Brad Wilson: And, you know, for the listener, I’m sure that if you’ve listened to chasing poker greatness for a long period of time, you know, me and D gaffes history, but he’s a good guy. And that’s why like, you know, when he says like, I thought you’d be excited like I’m excited for just you as a human fucking being. Just getting out there and plying your trade practicing your craft that thing that you are, you know, you are a world class fucking poker player. And it’s exciting to see you, you know, getting after it again.
DGAF: Thanks, man. I appreciate it. And you’re also pretty good dude. Especially with with your hair growing back. You just like the ultimate good dude. No, you don’t. It’s scary at all. And is everything going to free up?
Brad Wilson: Yeah, everything’s good man. Just doing the same thing. We’re growing the podcasts, doing the work, doing private coaching, making courses selling things. It’s a lot of energy expenditure. But I’m I’m actually kind of pumped up to go start playing some Live Poker here in the near future do some travel and you know, just talk to human beings right? Like in the in the flesh. I think I it took me a while to get excited to go play Live Poker again. But I think I’ve finally reached that point where like, yeah, I want to go want to talk to people. I want to play for a lot of money. Because it’s really fun.
DGAF: Yes, it is. It really is. So I look forward to hearing how that goes. Because you do seem like in your in your poker prime right now, which makes sense. You’ve been building all this strategy stuff. And you’ve been playing online. And those are very good. You know, trading tools towards a flexing your muscles when you get out there?
Brad Wilson: Yeah, I mean, when you see a complex thing, and you try to distill it down so that you can communicate it to somebody who’s much less experienced in poker, well, you just end up understanding that thing very intimately and way better than you started out understanding it, which just means that your poker game elevates in the same way that other people’s poker game elevates when they, you know, consume the training material. It’s just, it’s a win win for me. It’s hard. It’s stressful. But ultimately, it’s doing the work. And yeah, Will. I’m sure you and I will be meeting up very soon. Maybe we can have like a session slash CPG meetup game and, you know, you can get paid to just show up Play Live Poker somewhere. Actually, no, nobody knows who you are. So you’re still doing the whole anonymity show?
DGAF: I’m not man. I do meetups like, days a week. Yeah, I mean, not usually poker, but I have meetups all the time, man.
Brad Wilson: Well, what’s like a non poker meetup? What do you mean?
DGAF: Like going bowling going to a bar
Brad Wilson: with your people with your tribe? Yeah, yeah. Yeah. So we’re getting to the point now, maybe you can get your fucking face out there. And, you know?
DGAF: Yeah. It’s not as pretty as it used to be though.
Brad Wilson: Well, c’est la vie. You know, that’s life. We’re getting older. Right? We have to deal with that. These are the natural consequences of getting older. That’s true. Oh, man. It’s been great having you on we’ll do it again in the near future. And keep on keeping on. I’m pumped up. I’m excited to see what develops over the next year.
DGAF: All right, Brad, you too, man. Thanks a lot, and I’ll have you on session sometime soon as well.
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