Adam "Roothlus" Levy: Throwback To Online Poker's Wild West

Welcome welcome. Welcome my friends another episode of the chasing poker greatness podcast. As always, this is your host the founder of chasing poker greatness.com. Coach Brad Wilson. Today’s guest on the podcast is an OG of the online poker world. Adam ruthless levy in his combined online and live tournament poker career ruthless as cash for close to $8 million. And since Adams, poker career started way, way back, you got to just know we’re going to spend some time reminiscing about the golden age of poker and age where Adam Levy “Roothlus” absolutely feasted in 2006 Ruthless hit number five and pocket fives online poker rankings. Then at the WSOP in 2008. He was on the receiving end of a classic Hellmuth Ian rant. If you’re a fan of such things, all you got to do is grab your popcorn and Google Hellmuth Adam Levy “Roothlus” rent. The problem with feasting and good times is that Alas, they inevitably come to an end. As you’re about to learn and Adam lovies case, Black Friday was an especially bitter pill to swallow because of his genuine love for everything online poker. So in today’s episode with Adam ruthless Levy, you’re going to hear all about those glory days, what he got into after Black Friday, and what his life looks like today. So Now without any further ado, I bring to you online poker OG the ruthless one, Adam, lead Adam, welcome to chasing poker greatness, sir. How you doing? Man?

 

Adam Levy “Roothlus” (2:01) Doing pretty good. Glad to be here. And let’s just talk some poker.

 

Brad Wilson (2:05) Yeah, let’s let’s talk some poker. First question is about your journey. How’d you fall into the world of poker? You know, what does that look like?

 

Adam Levy “Roothlus” (2:16) Oh, man. Well, like a lot of other poker players, Magic, The Gathering. Basically, I just was playing it growing up. And then one day, like, I was actually in college, at a, like, up in Gainesville, I was actually going to community college. And I kind of was like, kind of floundering around after you know, going legit college not doing well there. And then I’m like back in Gainesville. 

 

Brad Wilson (2:43) And what year is this, by the way,

 

Adam Levy “Roothlus” (2:45) this is like 2003, like the moneymaker, boom, I don’t cool. And I’m like, I basically had like, decided that I was going to go home, like to South Florida, but there was like a month in between, where like, you know, I had like the rest of the, you know, the rent, you know, the last like, three weeks or whatever. And that’s when all of a sudden my magic friends start playing poker. And I was like, confused, like, why they were doing this. And then I like play, we use like $5.10 tournaments. And then I went home to South Florida, where like that, I mean, that’s where I’m from. And that’s where, like, you know, a lot of a lot of like good Magic players are, like are from, and like I knew them all through high school and stuff. So I reconnected with them. And they were playing poker, too. And I was like, What the heck is this, like, I just want to I’m addicted to magic, I just want to keep playing that I understand what’s going on. And after a little bit, like, we start playing limit, and I didn’t really like that. But then I guess I wanted to go back to like what we’re playing in Gainesville, which was no limit. And finally, like, we start playing a little bit of that, and that I like was like, this is this is fun, you know, and I was terrible. I think I was told to quit after like, the first year by like one of my friends.

 

Brad Wilson (4:05) Just because you weren’t progressing at all.

 

Adam Levy “Roothlus” (4:08) I mean, yeah, so I’d say that the way that I learned is like, I like pickup, like, I don’t pick up 100% of things or even like 90% of things on the first go around or whatever. You know, it’ll be like 60 to 70%. And then like, I’ll get some things like really wrong initially. And then eventually, like, you know, I’ll get it, you know, slower a little slower than other people. And I just like wasn’t getting poker doing things. What I want to do is I want to reinvent poker. Like my friend was like, hey, my favorite hands King 10. And I’m like, Well, let’s try it, you know, and then then for no reason, because my friend said it and I just had like an ego about it. Like, I’m smart. I can change the game. It’s like no, dude, you can’t like change math.

 

Brad Wilson (4:56) Yeah, you got to work within the confines of the game as it’s made.

 

Adam Levy “Roothlus” (5:00) Yeah, exactly. But so. And I mean, I actually love like, kind of like this journey. Like, really, these questions are great. You know, like what your theme your podcast is. And like, I so will say that it’s like, early 2000. And? Well, okay, there’s one crazy story that I had six months into my poker journey, where I was so addicted to it. So I don’t advise it, you know, like, not financial advice, kind of thing. Like, I do not advise anyone to go about their poker bankroll this way. But basically, I just knew that I could be good at this, even though I had nothing that was actually telling me that I was good. Like, my friends are like, quit. And you know, I just like, I would have some wins here and there, but like, nothing like, like, big.

 

Brad Wilson (5:49) Where do you think that that came from?

 

Adam Levy “Roothlus” (5:52) Um, I really don’t know, like, sometimes personally, the way maybe it’s my ADD or whatever. But there’s certain things I just get, like, fixated on doing, like, one time, like, it was like, I had to join a fraternity. When I had no money, like, like, when I was going back to school in Gainesville, like, I don’t know why I just was something I want, you know, and my parents were like, Adam, you do this all the time, like, you just focus on something, you get addicted to it, or whatever it is. And then like, it doesn’t work out. But for whatever reason, there was just this, like, power, like something that was like, I can do this. And then just kind of almost was like a mantra, like, I can do this. And like, over and over. And I couldn’t do this initially. Like I. So Party Poker, had this trick by the Party Poker is what you predominantly played back then not PokerStars. Yeah. And and they had this trick where you could link your bank account up. And because the way that overdraft fees worked, you would have two days, like you would get authorized or like $1,000. And then like, you would have two days to like, get the money, the money would post two days from them. So in my crazy head, I could be like, Oh, well, I’ll just play the $1,000 I’ll run it up, I’ll cash out, and then I’ll pay back the money. But like, that just was not a smart way to go about it. It did not work. I maxed out all my credit cards that I had, all of a sudden, I’m like, four or 5k in debt. And back then like because it was like, you know, Party Poker was calling, you know, America, you know, like, my, my mom’s house the entire time. You know? Like, what’s kid Adam, we need you to pay blah, blah. My mom’s like, what the hell’s going on? Yeah, um,

 

Brad Wilson (7:42) I see why people were advising you to step away from poker back in.

 

Adam Levy “Roothlus” (7:47) But the stubbornness in me, I guess, or removes the ego felt like because I was good at magic. We’re not like, great at it. Felt like I could do this. And then there’s, there’s literally that a day where I remember very vividly, like, my parents were like, Okay, we’re gonna go out to dinner tonight. And we need to talk. So I knew that it was like, I’m in trouble. Like, I have no money left. I’m into debt. Like, you know, I had 100. And like, literally, I had $109, less of my party poker account, like thrown into $100 $109 tournament. Yeah. And, like, three hours later, I’m nine of nine at the final table. My brother comes home. And he’s like, Oh, he’s also because he’s still in high school. He’s younger than me. He’s feeling the whole energy of Mine, like me, like being addicted and losing all the money and like, you know, the creditors calling. I like, get aces double up, get aces, again, double up, all of a sudden, like one of five. And then I just like, click a few buttons, and then boom, like, 30 minutes later, I win it for $6,000. And I have no idea where my life would be if there was that had not happened. Like maybe I’d found poker later, whatever. But maybe, you know, like, I also maybe would either go to gamblers anonymous, maybe that would have helped me who knows. But that night I went out and I I like just kind of slow rolled my parents a little bit actually. Like, don’t tell like I told my brother not tell them. And then I were like eating at this like Italian spot. And I’m just like, yeah, I want $6,000 I can pay off all the debt, and then I’ll have some left. And like, Mom and Dad are so confused. Because like, basically, this is validation. I mean, credit, maybe there’s luck, but there’s validation for everything that I was kind of going through. So it happened right in the nick of time. My mom was like, It’s divine intervention, you know, I don’t know. Because really, like, that’s absurd. You know, because if it had happened a day before, like, yeah, maybe they don’t know either way. It was like right in the nick of time, day after like, I’m not able to play poker. So after that my parents kind of got off my back. And then um, and then I like Hey, man, so I don’t want to keep the store too long. I don’t know,

 

Brad Wilson (10:03) We got plenty of time and that’s why we block off perfect for 30.

 

Adam Levy “Roothlus” (10:08) So, so after that, like, you know, my ego was meant to, like, I can do this, but I still couldn’t do this. And then I like quick I was and I told my mom like, I’m gonna stop playing blah blah, but like, they knew that I wasn’t gonna stop and I knew I wasn’t gonna stop. And so, around that time I started actually meeting little Hold’em Chad Batista, and I mean, oh, gee, rip, he passed away, I think like two dozen, just you know, fortunately but So, around that time we’re playing in this this poke it was honestly the best setup I’ve ever been in. For like a place to play poker online. It was six computers. So like it was you could play Magic at the tables. There was a poker table for the the game where people just run like some private Game One, two. And then there were six to eight computers where you could just sit and play like, you know, video games or online poker in

 

Brad Wilson (11:05) online poker cafe or like a poker Cafe based game? Yeah, I guess. I mean,

 

Adam Levy “Roothlus” (11:09) yeah, it was like, it was like a gamer cafe. It was just a dream. And so we would always convene there. And that’s where I met Chad. But it gotten to the point where like, I, so I would, I would get a job as a waiter, make some money. Put that into poker, lose the money, or like winsome in poker, quit my job, lose the money at a new job that happened four or five times in the year, where I just like, was using up all my burning bridges. Like it didn’t matter. I just kept doing it. Yeah. And then one day, like, I think it was January 2005. Like, right after New Year’s, I was just like, I’m quitting. And like, I didn’t have much money. I just was like, I’m just quitting. Like, I’m just gonna try to make it work. And I was so broke for that, like month and about a month and a half. That Ben one of the best Magic players in world Ben Stark, he was like the head like guy who was running all this stuff. He was like, Okay, I can’t give you any more money you owe me like 50 $100 but I can get you I can meet let you deal in the poker game. And so I would deal the first time, and then I would play in the poker game. So I would make I made like 40 bucks and tips played, lost it right away. The second day, the second time dealing, I had like 30 bucks was down on like, 20 Granted, this was $1 $2 $50 Buying, which is absurd. You know, like, it’s just pure gambling, you know, like, we didn’t really know back then. And I ran up like 330, like $21 to 606 50 I think which was like, like a lot of money. Like to win in that game. I paid band back like 150 took it to the Hard Rock put $100 down. One a couple sit and goes. That’s what it was like back then there were like tournaments. Dude, Florida was crazy, would like get like 300 people for 350 on a Tuesday or something. So then all of a sudden, I like pay back some more. I have like two grand, I put $100 on Party Poker. And I that’s when things kind of like changed for me was like, I saw I put 55 $11 and a 33. And are two people at the store that were watching me. And I lose the 55 and 11 right away, then like, three, four hours go by I’m like 16 I’m to have 16 in the 33, which is like 5k for first and I go decide I want to battle first. For some reason, you know, but I have like, I’ve I’ve ace king, you know, I’m battling you know, it’s like that, you know, but like, Alright, cool. I’ve ace king i can i reraised them. Because three bet wasn’t actually a term. Yeah. But so I and he he calls and the flop comes like 10 Seven, deuce. I bet they raise. I’m like, this is you know, it’d be over aggressive. That’s what you you know, and I go all in. And I got snapped off by sevens. 10 seven deuce. Like, and it’s like my friends next to me are like, what did you do? Oh my god, like, I looked down. And then as I’m looking up my friends are cheering because Party Poker runs like the run outs are so fast. Because when queen jack for me to scoop it, and I’m just like, it was like such an electric moment, you know, when like, like the way that all came down. So after that I just went on to win that then chained a bunch of tournaments together and then like within a week I had like 30 grand and kind of just like, yeah, pretty crazy.

 

Brad Wilson (14:45) Yeah, that’s happened fast back in those days. I remember. I was in Florida as well and I played on Party Poker, probably 2004 And those like one Oh, nines, you know, they had to fifteens like every day, like every day of the week. How to Enter K guaranteed to 15. And yeah put 75 on started playing short handed limit Hold’em ran the 75 and the like 900 like progressively starting at like 2436 shorthanded. And then by the end I’m like playing 1020 or 1530 shorthanded have like nine 900 in my account and then buy into a 215. And wait my friend up at about five in the morning. I’m like, yo, I just got fourth for like 15k and all of a sudden, you know, just have like, instant bankroll from pretty much nothing. Yeah, that, you know, those were good days back on Party Poker before you HGEA I think a lot of times on this show, you know, people don’t realize that like Party Poker was online poker back then. Yeah, like they, they were everything, you know, they and they were innovating to like the step tournaments, they had a lot of new things that were just kind of cool.

 

Adam Levy “Roothlus” (15:59) And so I was in there all time.

 

Brad Wilson (16:01) Me too. I mean, loved. One of my roommates, he worked as a server, and I was playing poker professionally. And I remember he got stuck in like to step tournament to hell for like two months. Like, finally made it to the final one. And like, busted. And he was so upset.

 

Adam Levy “Roothlus” (16:23) That’s funny. So I actually have two things to say about the steps. One was that Ben, like I mentioned, magic player, who actually still plays magic, like on Twitch, Nene is still at the top of his game. He got into a step higher, which is like, I don’t know, if you, you know, the step hires. They’re

 

Brad Wilson (16:46) basically there was a 5k, right, there was like a 500, a 1k. And a 5k. or something,

 

Adam Levy “Roothlus” (16:51) it was more absurd than that they changed it because it was too absurd. So basically, it was, it was like 1000 was was level five for steps. And that for this one, it was 500 was level one. And then by the level five, you had when to get up, like it wasn’t even more extreme. It wasn’t like top three or whatever advance it was Win Win Win, win win. So he like he got to 15k, which is level five. And it was like I don’t really remember like gigabit, or like, you know, the whales back then like, it’s, you know, that’s really all who I remember. But he ended up winning that tournament. My friend, and I’m, like, very positive, it’s the first one that ever ran, because he was he was running his steps all the time. And so it was kind of like a cool flex that we like, watch that happen. And then also, I actually, that’s how I kind of gave Chad will hold on my start and just start I mean, like he kind of was he was he was in jail for a bit. And then he came out and he needed like, he just like needed, like a little bit of financial help. And me and him somehow, like, you know, got just really connected. I’m kind of like an odd couple almost because I’m like this naive Jewish kid. And he’s like, literally like, like, I’m 63 and kind of goofy. And he’s like, five, five with a do rag and just like definitely, you know, looks like pretty hood. But he would just sleep on my floor while I’d go to bed. And he would like play yeah, maybe I guess I was letting him on my account or whatever back then. But he would play the steps up to like step four or five so then I would play those and then I would give him like 20 or 30% or something of like that.

 

Brad Wilson (18:32) He’s your private private step guy since Yeah,

 

Adam Levy “Roothlus” (18:35) there were no rules you don’t even know like what you’re doing back then. It’s just like, Yeah, okay, dude, like playing my car. Who cares? Yeah,

 

Brad Wilson (18:42) I think what’s interesting about like, the rules of poker and like integrity, like all these things. We just figured it out. There was no like rulebook, right? There’s nobody saying to do X, Y or Z really like 2122 23 year old kids just kind of making it up because like, this was a thing that had like, not been around that long and it really just never happened. And so you look back and you’re like, oh, like it’s easy to like judge in hindsight, but the reality is like when we were there there was no like nobody guiding our path. We didn’t have mentors like we were just kids trying to figure it out. 

 

Adam Levy “Roothlus” (19:21) Yeah, exactly. I mean, it was like the you remember the whole JJ prodigy like z Justin thing like though all those like multi accounting?

 

Brad Wilson (19:29) No, I mean, I nosey. Justin like he was back in Party Poker is like battling it to hundreds, but I don’t know, the multi accounting.

 

Adam Levy “Roothlus” (19:37) So I mean, you know, like, basically what happened was in granted like, I’m not, there was like a, like a, like a bug or something. But there was a way that you could open up as many Party Poker clients you like on the same laptop. You could have like six on the same laptops. Just change like one piece of code or something and I think like people figure that out and start using it. So it was just like, everyone was just doing it. I never actually did it, but I like did see how to do it. And like it, there were no rules, like you said, like, we were no one like, it wasn’t really something that people were actively, like really like thinking about. And then like, all of a sudden, it became a thing. And then like, those guys, were the two people that just kind of got, like, completely. I wouldn’t say it was a scapegoat, because, you know, but like, I think like JJ proj or whatever is that it was like, he was like, grandma, or his grandma’s account or something. But I mean, it is what it is. But it you kind of had to learn all these rules kind of on the

 

Brad Wilson (20:44) fly. Yeah. Yeah, you did that.

 

Adam Levy “Roothlus” (20:47) And after that, you knew okay, like multi accounting bad? Yeah,

 

Brad Wilson (20:50) I’m not gonna do this anymore. Because everyone looks down upon it. So okay. After you ran it up, did you you know, what, what? What’s the next part of your story after so much struggle running it up? I can’t imagine. Correct me if I’m wrong. I can’t imagine it’s just like a linear, straight up path, you know?

 

Adam Levy “Roothlus” (21:10) No, it wasn’t. I mean, it was. But I’d say that after that, it was kind of like the glory days for me, where I like me and Chad, and then this other guy named Ben, for some absurd reason we call them Ben Laden. Did I mean you look back at like, nicknames and you’re just like, what, like, what even what are we doing? But he it was us three. And there was this Party Poker glitch. I guess you could, you would go all in for some reason. After like two dozen five. They made the ribeye. You could go all in while you’re all in. You could rebuy like because your chips are technically in the middle and you had zero.

 

Brad Wilson (21:51) Yeah, so you can like double your stack if nobody caught on or like 4k or whatever.

 

Adam Levy “Roothlus” (21:55) So me Chad and Ben, we would just go all in rebuy, go all in rebuy like hope that someone doesn’t call us or whatever. And sometimes they didn’t want to get expensive. So it was literally like, every other night. Like it would be one of us three final tabling. And it got to the point that when I would meet some people, they’d be like, bro, you’re always in that 30 ribeye, you know, so it was a kind of like a fun like period where it was just like, me and Chad were just kind of like, just, you know, crushing it. And then I think I had Rude Awakening, like, when I went to the World Series, you know, because, like, Man, my ego was, it was the first thing I’d ever really succeeded in light, like or had been not succeeded. But other than, like, truly, very, like top tier, I guess. And I was always guests. I was searching for that. So my ego was just like, we’re the sickest, you know, and it’s your, your 25 year old kid or whatever. Like, it’s just not going to end well, when you kind of. And so I want to the World Series was like, Yeah, I’m an online poker player. We’re better than you on live guys. And then I went over 16 events. And that was like, okay, like, we gotta we gotta, we clearly don’t know, something. We need to we need to dial it back a bit. But then I would go online and, and do well. Then I went to Gainesville, Florida. And again, like back because my friend had a house. I was just, that was actually yeah, this is like, kind of like the like the dream like, I’m a 25 year old kid. Or, you know, I don’t know if you want to say kid anymore. But you know, so

 

Brad Wilson (23:41) young human. Yes, yeah. adult

 

Adam Levy “Roothlus” (23:45) living in a college town with my friends who are like 2021 in college. And we’re in like, some party house. You know, just like, I’m not going to school, but I just get to be around all of it. And I’m like doing well. So I think one of the coolest moments for me was on Super Bowl Sunday. Like I ended up getting third in the Sunday million, but it was the year that Peyton Manning like, blew out the opposing team. I forget like, what year I think it was like 2000 lives like 2006 Probably. But it was like such a bluff that people were not really watching during their inner circle party going on. But when I got knocked out, I got a standing ovation. Like people were clapping for me. Yeah, for winning like $50,000 or whatever. And it’s like sometimes you look back and you’re like, you know, that’s like almost more of a beautiful moment than then making like a final table of something.

 

Brad Wilson (24:40) Yeah, I mean, it’s something that like you can’t really recreate. Yeah, the energy in the room everybody cheering you on your what plays being a blowout was huge to the game. The game being a blowout. Pretty nice. Nobody’s focusing on it. I know. So after the Party Poker because party Volker went down after you IGA. Yeah. And I know that you played on ultimate bet you are one of their sponsor pros because I remember you being one of their sponsor pros because that was where I played as well. How did that come about the sponsorship with UB?

 

Adam Levy “Roothlus” (25:19) Um, well, I guess it’s the Queen 10 hand.

 

Brad Wilson (25:25) So, you’re gonna have to my research research department.

 

Adam Levy “Roothlus” (25:31) The well okay, so I’m you ever see the aggressive call hand? Huh? No, no. Okay, so um, there’s this. So I guess 2008 During the World Series, I’m playing against Phil Hellmuth. And on day four, and I just decided to call with Queen 10. And he yells at me because I beat him, he turns to set and I have like, that gives me the knock straight, and all the rest of the nuts. And he just like gets extremely mad at me. And then I guess there was a so that I guess Vanessa Rousso made some comments on like, the Two Plus Two forums, saying something was an aggressive call. And like, you can’t make a call aggressive. And it’s like, it’s an oxymoron. So Phil was so mad at me that after like two minutes of him just kind of like, being irate. He like kind of gathers himself and sits down and I just kind of like say, it was an aggressive call. And it’s like, if you could you could get inside of his mind at that present moment, it would have been like, white hot with. It was like he didn’t he like just like, kinda was almost frozen by how dumb of a statement it was growing.

 

Brad Wilson  (26:55) And, yeah, I don’t know how I missed that, I guess, at some point, like, so I was always playing cash. And at some point, I guess I didn’t watch all of the WSOP coverage.

 

Adam Levy “Roothlus” (27:09) I’m not gonnalie it is. It is like one of the more iconic hands that I’ve, like people still, like talk to me about and it’s funny. But

 

Brad Wilson (27:19) Yes, I failed, I failed. on the research side of the aggressive call Queen 10. I also didn’t even know like, that was a meme on two plus two, because I wasn’t really a two plus tour back in the day, 

 

Adam Levy “Roothlus” (27:32) That was kind of a deep cut. You know, like you only really knew if you were like very much like on the forums. And I actually missed the World Series that year 2007 When that all that happened, and then I just kind of like read all about it. And it was like a whole I don’t know, is a weird, like, you know, two plus two drama, because Vanessa Rousso made a bad call, and some was like, like, told her on the forum, and she tried to defend herself. 

 

Brad Wilson (27:54) Oh, that’s those days. I mean, what I think is awesome about those days were like, everybody who all the top level players were all congregated, like on two plus two, like, just for a long time, until, like card runners and then I guess people started like splitting off into their own groups and doing their own thing. But for a long time, online poker players were on two plus two, that was where they went, that was the de facto community.

 

Adam Levy “Roothlus” (28:24) Yeah, if you were if you did anything, if you wanted to be good in poker, like you went to those two. And that was that

 

Brad Wilson (28:31) Except for me. I was the one that didn’t go to two plus two, I learned some but like, I don’t know, boards, message boards. They just never resonated with me. And I don’t know why, like, I just don’t enjoy posts. I just don’t enjoy posting on them or should Sure, yeah, it felt like work. Like, plus it. It felt like too, I think in the later days of two plus two is like, somebody posts a hand. I have a different opinion. Somebody has already given an opinion that everybody’s agreed with. And I realize it’s not even worth it to even express my opinion, because then it’s just like, I’m just going to be defending my position for the next. Yeah, seven days. So I’d rather just not engage you know.

 

Adam Levy “Roothlus” (29:13) But so that hands honestly, that hand alone got me the ultimate bet deal. And like, back then it was there were no there was no full tool or PokerStars because of kind of like USGA, it was tough to get a deal. I mean, maybe it could have done something a full tilt, I guess. But I it was kind of like the whole whirlwind because I had hired an agent. Like that World Series, like just a poker agent. And it just all of a sudden it turned into this whole like thing like because I hired her. She like I woke up the day, day four, and I saw John roll, but John robear, blonde, Hellmuth, me and then you know like were just at the table or whatever. I mean, it’s just them two together, you know, is enough to make it a future table at the time. And I’m like, Yeah, this is gonna be a future table. And she started like talking ultimate bet. And should your connections there, and then eventually, you know, they wanted me to be a team Pro. And that was an interesting time. Because like, for me personally, I’m kind of I definitely feel like I’ve gotten a little less naive over the years. But I almost always want to just kind of like believe in the good in people, which is def mostly a good trait. But like, for that situation, I just was like, Well, I don’t think they’re gonna, like cheat again, or anything like that. And but it was still like, kind of like, the opposite optics wasn’t that good. Like, weren’t great for me. Because it’s like, you know, hey, I’m like,

 

Brad Wilson (30:47)  

When did you find out about the scandal, like you were already a pro, you were becoming a pro. When did that was the time…

 

Adam Levy “Roothlus” (30:53) I had known about it, it already happened. But I was like, it was like, kind of, I think it happened like, two are either 2006 2007. And it felt like they were kind of just trying to turn the page on it. And from my knowledge, it literally was just like, like, or not literally, but I know, like, there were there was definitely some sinister stuff going on. But like, they’d kind of got rid of these people. And, you know, as someone in the poker world who you don’t know where your next paycheck is coming from, it’s kind of hurt, you kind of have to have some form of security. And like, I just kind of went that way. Because it was, it was, you know, like, PokerStars was my dream. But like, that wasn’t an option. Full Tilt was, you know, secondary somewhat. So I went there. And it was it was pretty stressful, because I felt like I couldn’t really like be my self on like social media or this or that. And it just kind of weighed on me being there. So kind of, I made like a personal vow, I guess afterwards to just never really do anything that would put you in those kind of circumstances again, like, we’re like, even though I was really rooting for them. And like, I do think that ultimately, that was trying to write the ship after all of that. It still just like wore on me over the years, that it wasn’t worth the money. So I kinda like now I’m in like, the NFT world or whatever I really trying to like, kind of keep that in mind. All right, and I’ve kept that in mind since,

 

Brad Wilson (32:29) um, if you don’t mind me asking what was the sponsored pay for like a UB pro back then?

 

Adam Levy “Roothlus” (32:35) It was Dude, it was stupid. Like, I squandered it because I was just too much like, so a lot of the reason that I ended up moving to LA, by the way, so like, in 2009, I moved to LA, like, I just want to move out West, I had like a great year online. And I just like, like, was living the life, you know, and my agent was just like, You should pay, you should play $35 an hour, up to two tables, cash games, like they’re paying you and you’re playing and you’re getting right back. And I just was like, I’m so bad at cash games. I just wanna play tournaments. And, you know, I just did not play nearly as much as I should have. Because I was kind of just like there for the, you know, the lifestyle, I guess. So instead of playing I spent way too much money, just like living in like an expensive place. But it was like, I funny enough, my ex girlfriend renegotiated the deal in 2011. Like, basically, to get six figures, I was getting like 100k over 100k plus, I’d say with like 30k and byens. On top of the $35 an hour like rate like rakeback if I wanted. So it was like 2011 was setting up to be like, damn, this is like a secure for me. But like, then Black Friday obviously happened. And then ultimately, it was like, Yeah, we definitely don’t have the money on hand to deal with this. And they folded.

 

Brad Wilson (34:10) Yeah, they were they just kind of that that was it. That was the end of ultimate bet. blackFriday. Interestingly, like, it was kind of funny getting paid so long after the fact like after absolute poker and UB, and the DOJ and all of that kind of resolved itself because I know there was a lot of guys on UB when it went away. There was one one guy Gi Gi like underscore 88 He was he was buying up money like after Black Friday. He was like buying people’s account balances at like pennies on the dollar and stuff. And I just wonder, like, what kind of sweat that was for him like over the years or if he was able to? I don’t know, I don’t even know who that is. If I could track him down. I guess I would.

Adam Levy “Roothlus” (34:57)  

I  think i may have met him like many years ago like One of the World Series or one of the ultimate bet, like Aruba events or something, and I would always grind against that person in cash games when I was playing.

 

Brad Wilson (35:08) Yeah, because he was grinding every day he was, he’s like one of the, like, nanoco type guys. back then. But yeah, so Black Friday, hurts, I’m sure there’s like 100k per year, that’s just like kind of gone. But you’re in LA. So that’s a pretty good spot to be in. If you’re going to be a poker player, what happened?

 

Adam Levy “Roothlus” (35:32) That was a weird time, because like, I’m actually very thankful to my my expert, urging me to go outside of the country, like so the whole thing was, was it was, I guess, leading up to Black Friday, there were some signs, like Full Tilt started the multi entry tournaments where you could just like, play like up to like 601 K, you would play a tournament, and it’d be multi entry. And you could play like, four to six of that tournament in the same tournament. And then, like, if you ever got to the final table with two accounts, they just merged. Where you got paid out like nine actually what happened? You didn’t even you know, yeah. And it was like, why would they be doing this? You know, like, it’s maybe it started with Rush poker, which is also just maybe that was just like an innovation. But, um, like, the multi entries when Black Friday happened. I was like, relieved initially, because I because a we all thought that poker was solved. We’re pretty, pretty dumb about that. Because we all knew each other, you know, and the problem was was there were not new it wasn’t new turnover like it was because you IGA because it kind of cut off, like deposit. So they go kind of stealth. So a lot of people that are coming in were like, grinders are good players, you know? And it was yeah, like, the way you would get in was like secondhand, like a friend sending you money or something not like, Hey, I just want to play because I don’t want to play in random person. But so yeah, like when that happened, I was thinking of ways out, I wanted to start and try a startup, I don’t even know. But I had no idea what the hell like, even like how any of that worked. So what ended up happening was, I was walking in Coachella on like, like, kind of living the dream like April 15, walking into Coachella. And I get the call from my brother like, hey, like, you know, Black Friday, and I’m just like, Ah, I don’t know what I can really do this weekend. So I guess I’ll just enjoy, like, the last weekend before like, you know, there’s a reality check. And there was a period of time where like, for months, where I was just kind of like, doing nothing, you know, like, I just legitimately didn’t, you know, really know what to do. I was like, I guess I’ll just stay in LA. But then my ex was like, No, you we should we should try to go to like Vancouver or something like Vancouver seems great. And I was like, so I think back then I was very apprehensive of going to a new country by myself. I guess that makes sense. Like, I don’t know why it’s just Canada, you know, but I was like, oh, like, and so because we went, I went with my axe. It was like, okay, cool. Awesome. And then I went there, I was like, Whoa, Vancouver’s awesome. I went there in the summer, it was beautiful. So ended up coming back to Vancouver for like four months who signed like a, like a lease, and I just grinded there, but I just never. I think um, as poker players, sometimes you have to find an outlet to release like your kind of your emotions. And if you don’t like it will kind of show up in different ways. The Answer me like, I legitimate just lost $80,000 Like, then like, you know, those four months that I was there grinding on top of the expenses and stuff.

 

Brad Wilson (39:06) Yeah, you so what you’re saying is you were not playing at a high level when you were in Vancouver.

 

Adam Levy “Roothlus” (39:13) I was forcing it because, you know, there was a lot of this emotional like, I’m not in, I’m not comfortable where I am. Not I’m not in my country. You know, like, there’s just all these things, ironically enough, when I went home, or there was or whatever. There was like one. Like I had like one opportunity. I was in the Bahamas, I ended up like winning a couple events like when I was in the Bahamas for like the PokerStars Caribbean adventure that like, kind of negated the losses but I mean, it was just it was just a rough rough time because I can never really get like the, the maybe it was the there were emotions that were damages built up. And all of a sudden, you know, I would DGN because I’m only in Vancouver for a few weeks or a few months. answer something and lose it back.

 

Brad Wilson (40:02) Yeah, I think that happened. Now that I really think about it, I think it happened more frequently than you would think. I know the first time I went to Los Angeles, after Black Friday, I was at the Commerce playing there 1020 Olympic game, and a bunch of young kids were playing. And it turned out that like for the guys I was playing against were like up six Max, guys, like we all we all like knew each other screen names, you know, just like we started talking. And then all of a sudden, it was like, holy shit. Like, we’re basically playing six max on UV and LA. And then after that first trip, like, I didn’t see any of them again, like they just, I kept going back to LA and they didn’t really come back. And it was kind of like, I guess they just were not comfortable in that setting. They weren’t comfortable traveling or didn’t want to or whatever it was, and I have no idea if they continued playing poker or not. But the other thing you touched on too, is like the financial side of it, like, just getting money on and off websites was very difficult after you IGA in 2006. Like once net teller went down. I mean, all of a sudden, you know, you’re cashing out, you’re getting like a cheque. And if you cash out from like Singapore or Canada, if you’re lucky, yeah. Then you get like grilled by the bank. Where’s this money coming from? How do you do business? What’s going on here? It was not a very fun experience those even those five years leading up to Black Friday, and then yeah, I think after Black Friday, it was there were some like poker sites that were running, but then they stopped like paying people and everything just got really sketchy really quick. Which I guess is what led to me at all those guys go into Los Angeles to play Live Poker because like, it didn’t feel like there was any other option in the US anyway.

 

Adam Levy “Roothlus” (41:54) Yeah, it was a it was an interesting time because there are pockets of different there are places that just were kind of not infiltrated. But like Yeah, I mean, like all of a sudden there was Playa Del Carmen was a hotbed for for poker players. So it was Cabo. So it was Vancouver. Rosarito, Mexico. Yeah. Like, it was just like, where are these people coming from? You know, and I had to go through customs every time and I had to explain like, and it was just, it was such an so maybe that’s what happened. That’s where they went. But like going back to what you’re touching on with the casinos, like, two or three, if you look back, and you see like, see the energy, you were like, kind of maybe think about the energy in the casinos from like, 2011 to like to don’t 14 Or even look at the World Series. It was like, no one was happy to be there. Almost everyone was just like, like, this is sad. You know, like I’m sad because I can’t play online kind of thing. And like no one was really happy like you could see it on Twitter. Everyone’s energy was just kind of like wiry and just wanted to like yell at people and, and I mean, I get it and then also it like, like only people that were like, I don’t know, the whole reason why I played poker was because online poker and having casinos to play poker was like the yin and the yang. It was great. Not having one of them really changes why you play poker, I personally think. Yeah,

 

Brad Wilson (43:27) I mean, it’s like a good, like online poker was how you made a living. It was like how you generated money. And Live Poker was like a fun thing. To like, talk, talk to people and like, just congregate with your fellow man. And if you’re playing tournament, yeah, you get the glory playing Live Poker. But yeah, I mean, and that probably heard a lot of people’s view of poker and the thought of playing poker and definitely moving forward. If I gotta do this, I probably don’t want to do this forever. I got, I assume is what happened with a lot of guys.

 

Adam Levy “Roothlus” (44:00) Yeah, but then I got roped back into doing it. Like, I didn’t really want to do it that much longer, because it felt like it was just very intense. You know, spending five figures a day on a Tuesday, just playing tournaments. But like, then you kind of like, well, and maybe I was a little short sighted. Because like, I actually no, I wasn’t. Not only was I maybe I don’t know, if I was short sighted. I was so ingrained in the culture. I was like, you know, like in relationships sometimes people get codependent. Like any if the light kind of on kind of unravel it once. That’s kind of what it would felt like with me in the poker world. Like I felt like even though you know, there are a lot of other people who were very much like you know, in poker, but like they weren’t as ingrained in the culture like it honestly, like so many people knew me within there and I was like, ultimate bat and I was doing these things in LA, that were just like cool spots. And it was just, you know, I was helping celebrities sometimes like it was great. But like, I had tied every single part of my like being almost to the poker world like and like, so I didn’t really feel like I could do anything else at that present moment. Yeah, it was your identity. Yeah. And like, that was definitely not true at all. But I had to actually like, kind of take up, like, a long time away from it to understand that, but I also, like, I didn’t really grasp that I like, understand it until like, 2016. To be honest, it took me like five years, where I literally just like woke up one day and was like, All right, poker players that I’m living with during the World Series. I’m leaving, or actually was right after World Series, but I was like, I’m out. I broke, I like, broke the lease, like, I just paid them, like a few months of like, you know, for my room. And I just went to LA and tried to do something else. Like it was a..

 

Brad Wilson (45:52) What led to that? What was the, that aha moment or just that moment of realization?

 

Adam Levy “Roothlus” (45:59) Well, I mean, I think in like, 2014 15, like, I kind of like broke up with my ex after four years. So it was kind of like this. I’m like, 3132. So it felt like it was almost like a rebirth, I guess. Because it was, you know, and it was serious relationship. And I didn’t really think that I was going to be like, back out, like, single and stuff. So I got a completely new friend group that were like, they’re younger, I always seem to have like younger friends for whatever reason, but um, and, you know, we go to music festivals, and yeah, like, you know, maybe I did, I did, did some drugs. I’m not like much or anything, but you know, I definitely experimented and, and like, it kind of showed me just like camo poker was where it’s like, it’s a different way of making a living. And so is just, you know, like, going to music festivals and kind of just like, like, you don’t have to just be a poker player on most because like, they were like, it was like these friends were like, I play poker. But also, I’m only doing it to have fun with my life.

 

Brad Wilson (47:09) Yeah. You probably can’t make a living going to the music festivals, though. Unfortunately, well, maybe some people can. I guess if you’re a DJ. Yeah, some folks, some folks can, but very few. Yeah,

 

Adam Levy “Roothlus” (47:23) I definitely dusted a lot of money though doing that. But it was like, it led me to a path, I guess. 

 

Brad Wilson (47:29)  

And yeah, what was the path that it led you to?

 

Adam Levy “Roothlus” (47:31) I mean, so I was going to LA here and there because I always loved LA, but I just had to be kind of like uprooted from there for because the travel poker did make sense for me to, like, have place. And I had like an old friend who did like a crazy spot, like, new spot where like, I played like poker against like Starcraft pros, and they played StarCraft against me. And we showed like Skill versus luck kind of thing. And I reconnected with him. And he had like a business that was starting. And I just was like, I want to be a part of this. But I like was still naive and like, how, what what I was going there for and like what I was doing, but like, I think I just use that as a catalyst to break away from poker. But really, I just wanted to break away from poker. And I never had found I never found a reason. That was like, really, like, compelling. And the job like, kind of work, but kind of didn’t it was I think I didn’t really like I should have maybe like it was more of like a, like a mentorship maybe. And I just like kind of had preconceived notions that I was just gonna steal the poker, you were like, I succeed here, so I’m just gonna crush here, but like, you don’t understand that you have to like grind. But part of me was like, I didn’t have like, my ego was like, I’m not just gonna grind, you know, like, I’m not gonna, like, you know, do cold calls or this or that whatever it was, you know, so I had to kind of so I wouldn’t say it failed, but it didn’t. It wasn’t like a you know, like, it wasn’t completely the path. Yeah, but it got me to break away from and what I realized is I had a lot of internal growth to do still, like as like a 30 to 33 year old, like, I still had to, like, figure out like, what it will look like just life and understanding like simple things. Like, I had always been very, you know, I was fortunate that I had a great relationship and, you know, like, things were done for my, you know, good family, my, my things were done for me. And then I was finally alone. And I had to like, figure all of this stuff out like, hey, like, no one’s going to do your laundry kind of thing. You know, like it’s very simple, but it’s like yeah, like no one’s gonna make your bed like you have to make your bed it’s all very simple. But like these are these are things that like, you just you kind of just need I needed that reality check of like, yeah, like no one really is looking out for you except for you. kinda

 

Brad Wilson (50:00) Yeah, and took responsibility for your life.

 

Adam Levy “Roothlus” (50:04) So, so the thing that I did was super cool, you know, Rocket League by chance

 

Brad Wilson (50:10) I do. I have put in my time in Rocket League.

 

Adam Levy “Roothlus” (50:14) Night, so have I. So then maybe I guess you’ll like the story. I ended up starting like through this, this gig that I had. I love Rocket League. And I started throwing events for Rocket League, but it was kinda like too early because like, it’s like, it was 2000 like 16 or 17, where it was, like, people knew love the game, it was blowing up, but like, no one really understood like, you know, gaming, like it was before the fortnight like craze. But I started throwing events, just Rocket League, like bars and stuff. But apparently Rocket League, the company didn’t like because they want to be all ages. Like, I was like, I call it Rocket League and beers are simple, you know? But like, it was like, No, we’re like a kid company or whatever. But what ended up happening, what I know. But I got all the streamers to come out to the second event randomly. So it was like I’m playing like with all the casters that are still like, you know, Rocket League, you know, they’re doing still doing that to this day, like playing like in this like, random free event. So that was super cool. And it showed me like kind of how to throw events. And then I went off on a travel traveling again, playing poker didn’t really work that well, but it felt like I could. And because the broccoli thing was cool, but I wasn’t making money to sustain living in LA. And then then I guess it finally kind of stuck this this last time that I moved back to LA.

 

Brad Wilson (51:41) Yeah. And what about what about it stuck this time? Um, what are we into today? What do you spend your, your passion pursuing?

 

Adam Levy “Roothlus” (51:48) All right now it’s NF Ts. Right? And I think then not only right now, I mean, I feel like I just quit my job last week as like a fraud reviewer. To full pursue nfts full time,

 

Brad Wilson (52:00) What was the fraud reviewer gig? What does that what does that look like? 

 

Adam Levy “Roothlus” (52:04) Um, that was like, just there are some poker players that started a company A while back. That was like, it’s called approved APR UVD. And, basically, if you have, like a retail company online that crushes like, all of us, and let’s say you just like blow up, you know, you have like some clothes that you just immediately blow up. And you never plan to have fraud. Like, like someone reviewing fraud, making sure that you’re not getting scammed. But once you blow up, you’re a target. And once you’re at Target, if there’s not like proper, like protocols in place, you’re gonna get pretty like like rags, like, you’re gonna lose a lot of money. So they just outsource, like, you know, orders that might be sketched to us, and then we like would take a cut. So that happened because of the pandemic. But before that I was doing I was running events that was like, that was like, when I finally succeeded in something that I did. And I was like, super sick. It’s called games and grooves and we kind of it was a Rocket League thing, but more like, I had a DJ that was a partner. And, you know, we were like, just post up like, cornhole and Mario Kart and stuff and, and like run tournaments. And it was just like, super fun. But then the pandemic kind of ended up but with the last event that we’re through, sorry, I’m talking a lot, but no, no, it’s good. The last event that we threw was, like the sickest thing, it was like the pinnacle of that company, right? Like a week before the pandemic that basically showed us that we whatever path you’re on was definitely going to succeed. So that was cool.

 

Adam Levy “Roothlus” (57:39) Well, we did like an event like kind of for my birthday in June. And you know, it was cool, but like it like we had kind of changes people you know, it’s like a lot of like, hard labor, I guess. Just like setting up events carrying all this stuff or whatever.

 

Brad Wilson (57:56) You guys got soft during the pandemic. Exactly. We got soft.

 

Adam Levy “Roothlus” (57:59) I’d love to do it again those super fun and always always love throwing events.

 

Brad Wilson  (58:04) Nice. Cool, so then then fraud, the fraud business and now in Ft. So tell me about NF T’s and your relationship with Blockchain crypto, all that stuff I assume started like most of our relationships have with crypto and the online poker space.

 

Adam Levy “Roothlus” (58:23) Yeah, I mean Funny enough, I had gotten like back in like 2000 like 14 Some I bought some percentage of a poker player who was like a degenerate ended up like dusting off all his like World Series Main Event winnings it was like only like 30k or whatever. But like he just never paid me so one day he called me up and he was like, Yo, like, do you want Bitcoin? I’m like, sure I’ll take it whatever it was $1,000 and then I like just like opened up a Coinbase account like on a whim and he gave it to me. But unfortunately that was like I didn’t set like a good password because I was I was out and I was just like, he called me frantically and I guess they just like went in took that Bitcoin so that’s like a bad beat story. But like, that was kind of my very first like, foray and it is what it is but like, I’m like, I’d always wanted to get in. But Bitcoin never truly. Like I got it, but it wasn’t like that, like cool or anything. But then 2016 was when I saw Vitalik booter and like talk and some I have a thing where like, if I just like, like, I just will believe in the person maybe over everything else. Where like when I hear this dude talk, I’m like, this is the smartest student I’ve ever heard talk. Like, he I don’t know what he’s doing. But I’m on board. You know, like I barely get it but you take my money. Yeah,

 

Brad Wilson  (59:50) You’re investing in the in this human that’s like, kind of the visionary for the project. And I mean, yeah, dude is like, it’s hard to find a smarter person than him. him or somebody that you can, like, just genuinely believe in that, you know, feels like they’re trying to do everything in their power to make a project be successful. Like, exactly passion.

 

Adam Levy “Roothlus” (1:00:12) So and then like, you know, we went on for a bit and I was always like, kind of similar, like, you know, theorems cool, like, yeah, like I can, like, put, like, I can stake it and earn some money or whatever. But then NF T’s like Topshop blew up last year. And that was the first time I had seen like, legitimate use case for like..

 

Brad Wilson (1:00:30)  Please, please explain it to me. Because like, I don’t like so I’m actually like consulting with an NF T company right now. And there’s some there’s some utility in that company and what they’re doing and the NF T’s that they’re releasing, but like, Top Shot, or even, like a lot of the NMTC please help me out and help me understand why why it’s why it’s so cool. And they’re not just like, you know, JPEGs that are million dollars. Well, like,

 

Adam Levy “Roothlus” (1:01:00) Let’s just take like, you know, like the board apes. Yeah, um, like, let’s say you buy one. And you decide that you’re just gonna, you can build a brand, like you have commercial, right. So you can do whatever you want. Like, let’s say it has, like, you know, it’s trippy, and it’s Khaleel, trippy, kind of the first trip or whatever, you can maybe say, Hey, this is this guy’s going to be, you know, doing shrooms or whatever. You can make animation, you can make a character around it or whatever. You can do whatever you want. Also, you can basically make that your brand, like if you decide like, hey, like, there’s literally a guy on Twitter named like Captain trippy. He bought a trippy for eight, early on. And he’s just like, that’s my brand. And everyone knows him. He’s never changed his like, you know, profile pic. It’s basically like, like,

 

Brad Wilson (1:01:53) What, what would stop somebody from just having an illustrator draw but triple A?

 

Adam Levy “Roothlus” (1:01:58) Well, it’s not. I mean, you can’t sell it. Like, that’s cool. You can you can have that. But you can’t sell it, if only I can. And that is an issue. Actually, Twitter recently made it. So I don’t know if you’ve seen the hexagon profiles. No, I haven’t. But like, if you look, some people have like hexagon instead of like a circular circle in their profiles, because that’s saying, Hey, this is a confirmed NFT. But like, also, you get royalties, like let’s say you make a chasing poker greatness. NFT. And I buy it from you, for $100. Or like, cool, like, I get that maybe I give the marketplace like 5%, whatever, then I am approached by someone else who wants to buy from me for $1,000. And I sell it to them. I’ll get like the money, but you get royalties on that. And that just goes on and on forever. Like, let’s say you set it to 5%, then you would get 5% of the $100, which is you know, 50 bucks. And that or sorry, $1,000. Then now you’re just you can be making like, think about what it’s like with art, like iron, like, you know, real art. If you sell a Picasso or whatever, you know, obviously, and then it like gets bought, and then it gets, you know, the original persons or let’s say a bank, because banks there’s at least a lot. Banksy sells it in banks, he’s not getting royalties on that, even though it was like, It’s changing the way that creators create, like, or at least make money. So it’s just, it’s never it’s more like instead of being kind of predatory, you know, when, you know, like the the art houses or whatever, it’s just like we’re in this together. And which is so huge for musicians, artists, I mean, musicians, musicians, artists, like anyone that that just created..

Brad Wilson (1:03:56)  

Crators to write because like an NFT. So, yeah, to my understanding, non fungible token, basically, it’s just, it’s a thing you that. I mean, the definition of it is that it’s a thing that you pay, you pay spend money for a thing, and the thing you get back is not the same as the money that you spent. Right. I think that’s how it was broken down. 

 

Adam Levy “Roothlus” (1:04:19) It’s kind of like, if you have a let’s say, you have dollars those are fungible because yeah, they’re not the exact same thing they have a different serial code on them or serial number, but like you can trade them back and forth whereas like, let’s say you have two houses and cars like you would never trade a Ferrari for a Prius. 

 

Brad Wilson (1:04:37) You can’ttrade the bank see the bank see for the same bank see back, right.

 

Adam Levy “Roothlus” (1:04:41) That the well I mean, yeah, cuz that’s like it’s only one that exists. You know, it’s hot. Yeah. Like, you can’t trade you wouldn’t trade a bank. See for like a stick figure. You could. It’s possible. There’s a secondary market, but like, you know, like, it’s, it’s like they’re different. They’re non fungible because they don’t like kind of,

 

Brad Wilson (1:04:59) you can’t be On job, man, you can’t forget one job, you know, there, you just can’t find these guys

 

Adam Levy “Roothlus” (1:05:05) I heard that someone say that it’s kind of like, it sounds like they’re like no mushrooms a lab.

 

Brad Wilson (1:05:11) You can also put behind them like educational materials or like courses or whatever you want it right behind the entrance of the person who owns it is the only one that has access to the information.

 

Adam Levy “Roothlus” (1:05:23) Well, this is a perfect lead into a little bit of a, I guess a plug, I’m currently on a project called Lionshare. Poker. And it basically it’s it we haven’t, we haven’t released the token yet, but it’s going to be an access token. So in order to get into discord, or into certain parts of discord, you’ll need to have the token. And like, in order to play in poker tournaments that we have, you’ll need to have the token. And, and like, or like, you know, we’re kind of changing the way that like coaching is done. Because like you pay it out $100 a month, or whatever it is, and you just pay it forever. Whereas if you just own the token, whatever the price is, then you can have it forever. So that’s kind of what we’re doing. And that’s a typical way of like doing utilizing an NF T is making it so in order for you to, like be in this like area, you get at like you get access to certain things. And that could be live events also.

 

Brad Wilson (1:06:26) It could be a past so like VIP tournament or get together just whatever, whatever it is you can get in via your NFT. And I really liked the smart contract aspect of it. You mentioned the royalties where I assume it’s just baked into like the original agreement that the creator gets like a 5% royalty or whatever, each time. It’s resold something like that.

 

Adam Levy “Roothlus” (1:06:50) Yeah, you can decide whatever it is. But, you know, I think the standard is probably like five to 7% or something.

 

Brad Wilson (1:06:57) Yeah. smart contracts. That’s the that’s the whole deal. Right? 

 

Adam Levy “Roothlus” (1:07:01) Yeah, they’re smart. They’re very smart. They’re doing.

 

Brad Wilson (1:07:07) So is that going to be your, your pursuit, I guess, indefinitely into the future? The Yeah, well,

 

Adam Levy “Roothlus” (1:07:14) I’m, I’m definitely learning, like I was on another project. I’m like an advisor for one project that kind of like called MK RK that didn’t really like, have like the best, you know, the best like, drop, or like mint or whatever. But like, we’re, we’re all like, we’re all learning together kind of thing. And like, so that that was like my first like, kind of role there and learn, like learned a ton, I already knew a lot but like you still like, like, it’s a lot different when you’re actually running a project versus, you know, being on the collecting. So I hope to get I’m definitely collecting a lot. But then I have this, then I have the Lionshare thing and probably going to start some consulting business for NF t’s just because I can’t tell you how many times I have this conversation, it’s actually getting, like more and more frequent to the point, like I’ve never been the guy to not respond to people. But like, like, if you’re now it’s like I have to actually that I have to really be valuable with where I allocate my time. Like a poker player, we feel like when we play poker, you win $50,000 in like a day, it feels like you’re kind of hacking time, you know, but now it’s like, I have to be very careful who I want to talk to and this and that. Because like, like, I’m just getting hit up so much. And

 

Brad Wilson (1:08:31) It’s a scarce resource, right? Yeah, our time and our energy is a scarce resource. And, you know, that’s one of the reasons why I’ve gotten out of like, one to one private coaching at the beginning of this year, because like, it doesn’t scale. And I only have so many hours in the day to work on so many projects, you know, and I you have to be selective in how you spend your time and your energy. Whereas like, I think before as a poker player, it’s like, okay, cool. I’m playing poker, and if I’m not playing poker, I’ll do whatever I have. No, there’s like, no direction at all. It’s like, yeah, oh, you want to, like fly to LA, let’s just flat out let’s do whatever meant, let’s let’s do it.

 

Adam Levy “Roothlus” (1:09:10) You know, I’m been going through that the last few days. Because, I mean, I haven’t had a job. I mean, I haven’t been I’ve been working at the fraud company for the past two years. And like, literally, Monday was my first day where I’m like, Alright, I should actually like, you know, formulate, like a schedule and this and that. And like, the first part was like, I probably need a planner, you know, like, I need to like actually work, but it’s like, it’s hard because like some there’s more hours you’re like, okay, like, I need to figure out something to do. And like, you know, I’m not like necessarily the best at scheduling. You have to..

 

Brad Wilson (1:09:45)  

Will put your poker player you know, they our schedule was created by the tournament operators whenever they programmed the tournaments to fire off that that was the schedule. Cool, man. Let’s, let’s move to some lightning round questions. And then we’ll get you out of here. So you can go mess with your planner and you know, stop wasting time doing the podcast scene. If you could gift all poker players, one book to read doesn’t necessarily have to be about poker, what book would you give them?

 

Adam Levy “Roothlus” (1:10:16) Um, I mean, man, I haven’t read in that, like, I, the first book I read was Wilhelmi Swan, and I wouldn’t give that to them. I would actually say that advanced tournament poker, like the Sklansky book, even though it’s kind of like dated now, it was very helpful and may help me understand concepts like or like things I already knew, but I didn’t know how to articulate like, the gap concept, which is kinda like, like, I don’t know, anyone who doesn’t know that. It’s like, when you raise under the gun, and like you, someone calls you TG two, you can probably assume that UTG to is tighter. You know, and it’s like, as you kind of like, but obviously it kind of

 

Brad Wilson (1:11:00) escalation of like the, the relative strength of people’s hands when they took specific actions. 

 

Adam Levy “Roothlus” (1:11:06) Yeah, obviously now, like with the cut off and button, it’s like, with, like, you know, the way that Pio solver wants you to play it’s way, way, way different. Like, you’re actually pretty loose on there, those spots because of position, but I just felt like it was so integral in helping me elevate my game, when I was in a very kind of like, a like, to jump from like amateur to like, you know, intermediate. And I would recommend that book, actually. I mean, I don’t know how it stands up. Now, I would recommend that book to amateurs to kind of just like, you know, like, get those core concepts down, even if it’s not really if even if it’s a little dated.

 

Brad Wilson (1:11:45) Yeah, I mean, I read that book. And I remember almost nothing like I think I read that book. When I was working at Applebee’s. I read supersystem Hold’em for advanced players and super system and like that was that was the full poker education. Other than that, it’s like, let’s get in there and fire. So, if you could wave a magic wand and change something about poker, what would you change? That’s your NFT. By the way, it’s a magic one poker NF T magic, NF T.

 

Adam Levy “Roothlus” (1:12:17) I mean, I mean, I think it’s kind of just like, I just wish that online poker would be still be in America. I don’t think that’s like a very, maybe it’s a simple answer. But I mean, online poker is that that’s like, where I really just thrived as like a poker player or not like, like, skill wise, or anything, just like, lifestyle wise and really enjoying like, kind of the whole grind of, you know, yeah, you’re not with people grinding or you could be, but you’re like, online, and everyone’s kind of just like, you know, having fun playing poker together.

 

Brad Wilson (1:12:51) If online poker just came back tomorrow, would you invest energy into into play? Like.

 

Adam Levy “Roothlus” (1:12:58)  

I wouldn’t be playing almost all Sundays. Yeah.

 

Brad Wilson (1:13:02) Yeah. So you’d be back in there on the weekends? Yeah, for sure. I think. I mean, I don’t know I go, I go across the board with any sort of projection to the point where, like, people asked me and I just like, don’t, don’t offer an opinion. But I think it’s getting closer rather than farther away. Like just, I think that like, with sports betting getting legalized kind of across the country now, in the fantasy sports, I think that like it’s a matter of time. And I know that there’s a lot of interest in outside platforms coming to the USA as well, which you know, means money spent in getting some things changed, hopefully down the line, which all of that stuff looks looks like a good sign. But again, I don’t know. I’m just a poker player. But yeah, five, five to 10 years maybe.

 

Adam Levy “Roothlus” (1:13:57) Let’s hope so. Maybe 10 years for on the longer on for California. But

 

Brad Wilson (1:14:02) yeah, I mean, I think the tribe, the tribal communities there, they’re going to fight online poker until their dying breath like they do. They do not want online gambling or online poker to come. And I think that’s the biggest hurdle as it relates to California specifically. If you could put up a billboard, every poker players got to drive past on their way to the casino. What’s your billboard? Sir?

 

Adam Levy “Roothlus” (1:14:29) Good question. I don’t know. I mean, one comes to mind but it kind of you like uses answer a lot. And it’s just like, just just fold more. Like, I know, it’s kind of simple on it. But man, or like, you know, like, what about the queen?

 

Brad Wilson (1:14:50) What about the aggressive calls? Yeah.

 

Adam Levy “Roothlus” (1:14:57) Um, yeah, I like it. Just me mean just like advertising?

 

Brad Wilson (1:15:01) Like, yeah, just like some little quip or quote that you think would be helpful to somebody or hurtful. I mean, I guess it’s your billboard.

 

Adam Levy “Roothlus” (1:15:13) Yeah, I mean, I would probably just be like, no, never say thank you when, like someone’s doesn’t say nice and don’t say thank you because apparently some people don’t realize that they need they need a billboard for it.

 

Brad Wilson (1:15:33) Yeah. Thank you. I’m guessing that doesn’t go over so well. All right. So you’ve mentioned the project that you’re working on that’s near and dear to your heart. Are there any more projects you’re working on? That you’d like to speak about?

 

Adam Levy “Roothlus” (1:15:50) I’m not really I think those two things are kind of like the prime focus right now. And you know, my,

 

Brad Wilson (1:15:57) whatever, your digital horse owner, right?

 

Adam Levy “Roothlus” (1:16:00) Yeah, I mean, I have a Zed run hat on right now. And I was that super fun Zurdo farms, which is the stable, and I have it with some friends. And it’s just like, they, I feel like that’s just like, one of that was the thing like right after Top Shot where everyone’s just like, oh my god, this is going to be such a sick like, thing to do with NF TS is like, the horses the NFT they make it so that you’ll probably be able to bet on it. At some point, you already putting a buy ins for your own horse. And like they have like different like attributes and this and that. And, and in New York. They had so NFT NYC there was like a meetup and Zed run brought like their entire team from like Australia, like the founders and stuff to run an in person, kind of like a race. And basically what we did was we all ran like zebra farms and a few other I think 11 Other stables we ran a z one, which is the rarest asset in the game. And they’re like, if you run them, you can risk losing a lot of money. So I think because like, they can be bad, you know, like, the way.

 

Brad Wilson (1:17:19) So they could be rare, but then they could just be like lemons.

 

Adam Levy “Roothlus” (1:17:24) Yeah, exactly. There’s some, the thing, the good thing is the reason why Z ones are the best is because a it’s the first like, you know, it’s kind of they really modeled after, like, horses, where it’s like the lineage is begins with C one. But they have a higher percentage of being good, but the percentage is still like 25%, that they’re going to be good. Versus like, you know, average to bat. So so you’re generally taking a risk. So 12 of us ran an unraced z one in New York at a bar. And it was super high. Like, it was so much fun. Everyone’s around there rooting on like, on the big screen there, they got the dude to play the trumpet, you know, before posting. I mean, it was a great, great experience. And actually, that’s where I got that hat. So, I mean, I think that Ron, once they do and that

 

Brad Wilson (1:18:21)  

work, like how long so tell me like, do you know? How does it? How does the NF t have like, when you pit them against each other? What is it looking at like and then it’s just the same forever. So like whatever attributes this this stallion has, it just keeps those forever. So like the ones that suck, they just suck forever. The ones that are great, they’re great forever,

 

Adam Levy “Roothlus” (1:18:46) kind of but you’re so I guess the way they do it is they run like they they have like 1000 races that it can like can be ran, I guess whenever you add in like one of 1000 like happens, I guess in each race so retires? No, no, it’s just like that’s like kind of that’s how they do the algo variants within the races. Also, there’s going to be other things like added in like you can do breeding is a thing. So it could be a bad racer, good breeder, or vice versa. And then also at some point, there’s going to be like fatigue, or there is fatigue. Now, they might add in like, you know, jockeys or they may add turns and this and that. So whether there’s all these different things that they’re adding to it, if that makes sense.

 

Brad Wilson  (1:19:36) Yeah, that’s interesting. I saw like the I saw it go down and then I saw on your Twitter page, and I was just interested in like, how that how that goes down like functionally. It’s pretty cool. How’d your horse do?

 

Adam Levy “Roothlus” (1:19:51) I think oh, it was three races. We placed one of them. So we got third. And was which is acceptable. I mean, these were some The best stables in the world with some you know, some of the best horses you know. 

 

Brad Wilson (1:20:04) So, yeah, so happy. Yeah, not not a total lemon.

 

Adam Levy “Roothlus” (1:20:09) You know we did exactly that’s what we didn’t we did not want to lemon.

 

Brad Wilson (1:20:13) Yeah now you got to see if it’s a breeder to maybe you got the double threat yeah. Cool so yeah final final question man just if somebody in the chasing poker greatness audience wants to learn more about you and the projects that we’re working on where can they go?

 

Adam Levy “Roothlus” (1:20:35) They can go to my Twitter are o th Lus, or then go to the discord for that project Lionshare poker dot G are dodgy. It’s the discord. But I I don’t know, I always like forget the exact link, but I think it’s just Lionshare poker.gg like discord.com. But yeah, I mean, those two places, I’m pretty active on Twitter. To be honest, I usually just end up talking to NF T’s and then sometimes I just say like random silly thoughts, because that’s where you’re supposed to put them on the internet, I guess. Yeah,

 

Brad Wilson (1:21:11) I think so. I think that’s what it was made for. And just don’t send him a DM asking about NF TS because he demands he’s living his life.

 

Adam Levy “Roothlus” (1:21:21) He actually you I would say just don’t send a DM that says hi. I can’t tell you how many I get how many DMS I get that are Hi, how are you? Like, I’m not? I don’t know who what, like?

 

Brad Wilson (1:21:35) Well, how are you though? Really?

 

Adam Levy “Roothlus” (1:21:37) I mean, I’m great. I did maybe occasionally answer because I just needed that question to be asked to me. 

 

Brad Wilson (1:21:42) Yeah, there you go. Man, it’s been great having you on. Best of luck pursuing chasing chasing NFT greatness. Excited to see what comes out, you know, of the space and your projects as well. In the near future. It’s an exciting time. And it’s really early on, I think in that world. Kind of like poker was back in, you know, 2004 Yeah, I appreciate that.

 

Adam Levy “Roothlus” (1:22:08) But I will say that I am still chasing poker greatness every year for the main event. Like I will never not play the main event come up, you know, and just, it’s just such a pure great tournament so different than any other tournament you can possibly play throughout the year. Yeah, I’ll be at five and my, you know, VR headset or whatever it is just playing, playing the main event.

 

Brad Wilson (1:22:35) Awesome, man. Good that. You know, staying close to your roots and keeping poker part of your life. And yeah, best of luck and I’ll talk to you again in a couple years. We’ll catch up see what’s going on.

 

Adam Levy “Roothlus” (1:22:49) Yeah, sounds great.

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